I'd approach it in a completely different way.

Forget about chord charts/wheels/theory

In fact, forget about chords completely

Start by writing 3 or 4 different melodies which all fit together harmonically - you can easily go back and work out what the "chords" are afterwards.

Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)

Apologies from my part as well.

One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.

It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!

Sam


EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)

samhayman


Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)

Apologies from my part as well.

One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.

It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!

Sam


EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)

My apologies! I thought you would have gotten that. I lapsed about you being new here. Many can attest to my intimidating posts! :) 

Rus W

samhayman


Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)

Apologies from my part as well.

One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.

It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!

Sam


EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)

My apologies! I thought you would have gotten that. I lapsed about you being new here. Many can attest to my intimidating posts! :) 

Yes, and I can see why! When I started studying advanced harmony which as you know is just one facet - albeit, arguably the vastest field in music theory (Rhythm - using it as an umbrella term - competes quite closely in my opinion), I was overwhelmed to say the least. And I do remember how it felt. You study rules for years on end only to come to a point where you study more rules to break the rules and THEN come to a point where you play things simply because they sound good. Pretty much what Duke Ellington said in one of his most famous quotes, "If it sounds good, it's good".


There certainly would be god-knows what explanation behind the 'why' some "odd" progression works, or why it makes perfect sense to one's ear when listening to Keith Jarrett ending a phrase on Ab (and holding it, not just using it as a passing note) in Autumn Leaves played on a Gm chord.

It's all fascinating stuff. And yes, at times quite intimidating.

But yes in the end it's people like you who make this forum a very interesting one :)
Janet, it seems like we hijacked your thread. Sorry :)

Bristol_Jonesey


I'd approach it in a completely different way.

Forget about chord charts/wheels/theory

In fact, forget about chords completely

Start by writing 3 or 4 different melodies which all fit together harmonically - you can easily go back and work out what the "chords" are afterwards.

Yep - especially when you get into voice-leading and I have said that harmony is only multiple melodies; yet, this also teaches one how to get harmony to flow melodically. It's a double-edged sword in a good sense.

samhayman

Rus W

samhayman


Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)

Apologies from my part as well.

One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.

It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!

Sam


EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)

My apologies! I thought you would have gotten that. I lapsed about you being new here. Many can attest to my intimidating posts! :) 

Yes, and I can see why! When I started studying advanced harmony which as you know is just one facet - albeit, arguably the vastest field in music theory (Rhythm - using it as an umbrella term - competes quite closely in my opinion), I was overwhelmed to say the least. And I do remember how it felt. You study rules for years on end only to come to a point where you study more rules to break the rules and THEN come to a point where you play things simply because they sound good. Pretty much what Duke Ellington said in one of his most famous quotes, "If it sounds good, it's good".


There certainly would be god-knows what explanation behind the 'why' some "odd" progression works, or why it makes perfect sense to one's ear when listening to Keith Jarrett ending a phrase on Ab (and holding it, not just using it as a passing note) in Autumn Leaves played on a Gm chord.

It's all fascinating stuff. And yes, at times quite intimidating.

But yes in the end it's people like you who make this forum a very interesting one :)
Janet, it seems like we hijacked your thread. Sorry :)

Same goes with production, too! I think it was a certified Ableton Live user (I forget his name) who said the same thing. However, of course as most know whether in composition or production - the guidelines are a good place to start - that is why we learn them first. The I-IV-V, the first progression taught (and a very adhesive progression at that - just ask Janet - lol.) Yet, a very popular one since it's all you need, really. Of course, there's Achy-Breaky Heart - the two chord gem by Billy Ray Cyrus!


Anywho, Janet if you do have any more questions, we are here to help. Remember though, not everything can be obtained by just reading - listening takes a bigger precedence when it comes to music!

Mmm, looking over some of those threads you put up Rus, I saw one really great, simple thing that I, as a beginner think is perfect.

For major keys:

There are three basic chord "functions", and all 7 chords in a MAJOR key fall into one of those: TONIC: I, vi, iii DOMINANT: V, vii SUBDOMINANT: IV, ii The dominant pair can substitute for each other (do the same job, leading to I), as can the subdominant pair (leading to V)

For minor keys:

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; background-color: rgb(237, 239, 242); "]In MINOR keys the situation is a little different, partly because of the variable scale. TONIC = i DOMINANT = V, vii SUBDOMINANT = iv, ii, VI

Use this in conjunction with something like this fella to quickly and easily play it out on guitar (unless you are good with your I ii iii IV etc stuff)


http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1180676064l/1064839.jpg

It's so basic, it's perfect. Simply understand Tonic, Dominant and Subdominant and how they all work together, and progressions should easily happen!! I guess the only issue is they all might kind of 'work' really well and almost sound TOO good, but if you want to do something different, you got to break the rules anyway. So I really like this. Basic music theory 101 but something probably easy to miss for those who see it as so obvious cause they have known it all along.



P.S. I hadn't actually read those posts of yours yet but just went up and skimmed it again, and it's exactly what I just said but in more detail haha! I need to stop typing before I read ;) Ok, no more from me till I read these great looking posts! :)

@ Matt:

Theory takes as much practice as performance and nothing wrong with the same thing being said a gazillion ways. It's what resonates with you, so you get it.
I could've helped by "outlining" my subjects in the posts, but I didn't. And no-no. By all means, ask questions. You never get answers unless you do. That goes for everybody.

Thanks, you guys!  It's way early in the morning so I just skimmed your posts, and like you said, it will take some time to digest.  Fortunately, I've studied chords and know what most of them are.  I just need to take some time to get more creative in their combinations.  I'll delve into your posts (Sam & Rus) when I've got some time to 'play.' 

And Sam, you should know better than to use the word 'spicing' around here! For shame!  

And Robby, you have a great point....many, many great songs just use mostly I, IV, & V.  I think if I got outside of those chords, I could write better melodies.  At least I hope so.  You, though, carry on...you already make great music! :) 

Well... not to throw more confusing stuff into the discussion..... but....

Use what I refer to as the colorful chords, the jazz chords.... learn a few minor 6th, 9th, 11th, & 13th, chords, and their major compadres.... 

then grab a few diminished and augmented chords and add them to the mix and....

 then..... really bust loose by getting some of the cool chords..

the 7b5 .... the 9sus4 ... 13b5b9 ....#5b9    and so many other colorful chord variations. 

So in a basic 1,4,5 standard rock/blues progression, substitute a few of the "new" chords and see what happens. 

I learned a number of these "jazz chords" from a jazz guitar method book and I will throw them in where they sound good to s.p.i.c.e things up. 

More than one time, I have been composing a tune and quite by accident I will hit the totally wrong chord and it sounds good.... so ...... happy mistakes will happen too. Embrace them.

While I did study music theory for a few years, and it was interesting, I do not "think" that way when I write.