I'll start by giving some typical panning positions I have been tending to start around for doing the typical rock stuff I do.
 
Lead vox -center
Back vocals -centered or maybe 10-15% L or R
Bass -center
Kick -center
Snare-center
Hi hats-30% L
Ride - 50% R
Tom1 -20% L
Tom2 - Usually center or maybe 10% R (to get it off the middle)
Floor tom -20% R
Overheads - Generally panned pretty wide 80% or so
Guitar 1A- 50% L
Guitar 1B- 60% L
Guitar 2A- 50% R
Guitar 2B- 60% R
Guitar lead - center
 
   I find it strange how on some songs a similar arrangement to the above works so well and other songs in similar style recorded by the same people with the same instruments it can sound like a whole in the center.  Sometimes it seems the guitars are just to wide and get separated and detached from the rythem section.   Do I have something drastically wrong?  Is this a common thing?  I know every song requires it's own treatment and all but it's just wierd how something so right for one rock song is terrible for another song that in-and-of itself is not so different from the first. 
 
 
 
 

Hi Chuck

How I see it; 

I treat panning similar to how I see the musicians on stage.

Sure I might get crits about drummers only have two hands and two feet but I squash that theory by saying... excuse me but my band has two drummers and a percussionist that can't get enough caffeine. 

The main focus is simple; it's important that each instrument has its own space in the stereo field. 

The following is a rough guide only to demonstrate the use of the entire stereo field and separation of each instrument in the mix:  


. Lead vocal main - out front: C
. Lead vocal layer: stereo echo/delay or 100% L
. Lead vocal layer: stereo echo/delay or 100% R
. Lead vocal grunge: C (yet another separate recording)
. Harmony Voc 1: 75 % L
. Harmony Voc 2: 75 % R
. Harmony Voc 3: 85 % L
. Harmony voc 4: 85 % R
. Harmony Voc 5: 50 % L
. Harmony Voc 6: 50 % R
No auto-harmonizer used. It's all human effort. 
. Bass #1 Clear, punchy (bit of distortion): C
. Bass #1 Rounded, more body: C
. Guitar #1: 98% L
. Guitar #1A Layer: 100% L
. Guitar #2: 98% R (or swap for other instrument)
. Guitar #2B Layer: 100% R (or swap for other inst)
. Lead: 8% L or R with echo/delay
. Piano: 35% R - might change depending on song. 
. Main Strings - Synth 35% L 
. SynthStrng #1 60% L or 100% depends on song arrangement
. SynthStrng #2 60% R or 100% depends on song arrangement
. FX Pads, Swirls, sweeps from 100% L to R
(FX Pad is usually pre-programmed part of the sound)
. Kick (Addictive Drums): C
. Kick Layer (GrooveSynth Classic 909, 808 Kick) C
. Snare #1: (Addictive Drums) 10% R
. Snare #2: (GrooveSynth) 10% R
. Hi-Hats: 15% L
. Ride Bell: 15% R (sometimes L)
. Ride Sizzle: 20% L (sometimes R)
. Crash Cym Low: 40% R
. Crash Cym Med: 40% L
. Splash Cym: 20% R
. Tambourine: 15% R (sometimes 10% R swap for Snare)

Again; the above is a rough guide, I don't have the exact specs on my mix. There are more instruments that I have not included here; mostly layers and other parts that come in/out of the arrangements. 

Hi Chuck,
 
Something that might be worth trying is to mix the kick, bass git, and snare just off center.
 
i.e.
Kick 2-3% L/R
Bass guitar same as kick
snare 2-3% opposite of kick and bass
 
Did I explain that at all coherently?
 
Anyways, it can be amazing sometimes what 4*-6* separation up the middle can make.
 
Good luck :  )
 
MP3ISTHEDEVIL

Often times,  use the staage visual as well; however, like everything else, it varies from song to song. 

I was watching a YT vid about LCR Panning (Hard Left, Center, Hard Right).

It in he felt that doing so pushes what doesn't need focus out of the way. He also said that it helps getting things to fit in the mix as you see if something is (volume wise) is too high or too low.

Again, it varies from song to song, but he was advocating using the entire stereo field which is what you get when you pan things Hard Left and Right.

Something that was noted about my tracks in their earlier stages.

So, yeah, experment with different pan %s

i posted the same thing here about a year ago chuck..and its good to get an idea of what people are doing in mixes to get good ideas..your doing exactly what im doing except two of those rhythm guitars are panned 100%hard left and hard right.
the spectrum of the drums is how i like to imagine it in my head as sitting in front of a real kit.
i often find channel tools will help emphasize this.
bass guitar is a funny creature.it finds a way to get lost in a mix very easy if not careful.i also sometimes whip in a few low level panned tracks for punch and the main bass track compressed and e.q.'d for clarity and bang..it competes with the kick drum so much that its important to send home the message how critical it is to home in on the kicks eq or it will get lost in the mix.

What I've found peculiar is that most mixes on the radio have the drums panned according to the drummer's perspective, not the listener's.
I personally prefer the listeners perspective.

Excellent tips here...I'm happy to see confirmation on how I'm doing my panning, I pretty much do it how Songcraft suggests.  I am going to try and separate the kick and bass guitar a couple of degrees L and R off center and see how it sounds.

Gustabo, being a drummer first, I noticed that as well.  Most kit presets are already panned and I'm too lazy to mess with them.  I just tell everyone that my drummer is left handed if they happen to catch it.  Most people don't even notice.  And your bug gets me every time lol

Before I forget- Thank you all for your replies so far & thank you again for future replies!

Songcraft- I am intrigued by how many layers you have going.   I have never done more than 2 recorded layers of the main vocal.  (many singers can't sing the same exact way twice in a row, I am a creature of habit I suppose.  When I lock down what and how I am singing &/or playing guitar I play it identical every time.  I can't tell you how many times tracking vocals or a guitar lead I thought "well that was ok, but let me lay one or 2 more and then pick from them which one to use" I find one I think felt better then listen back and they are all identical performances.  Go figure?

Mp3- yep, I appreciate the tip.  I have one song that I have the kick panned about 8% opposite the bass guitar track because they kept stepping on one another but I liked the eq I had.  It works well and I am not planning to print to vinyl so why not right?  In the case I was talking about in the first post my issue was too much separation, kind of the opposite.

Rus- It certainly helps to get ambient non-focal parts out of the way on the and at the sides.   Speaking of which...  Which panning law do you guys use?   honestly, I have the default still on and it drives me crazy.   I hate that if I have a guitar part set to be peaking at say -8db and then try moving it hard left it is now peaking in the left channel!   Which one of the panning laws is going to leave it at -8db and just move it to the left without boosting it?

Chuckebaby- I prefer drummer perspective too, I know it irritates some of the folks on here but unless they wanna produce my music for me, I am doing that my way.  It's a subjective thing not a right and wrong thing.  
  As for the bass are you saying you clone 2 more copies and have them lower and to the sides while compressing the crap out of the center track?  I've never tried it!?   
    *OFFTOPIC* One thing that seems to have helped my mixes is I stopped beatting the compressors to death.  on an individual bass or guitar track I used to have it running with 8-15db of gain reduction with 7:1 ratios and use make up gain to get it back which beat up the dynamics within the part (little nuances like palm mutes etc).  I am now keeping it down around 4-5 db GR with ratios around 4:1 for guitar tracks and to me it sounds much more natural and breathes better. what do you think?

Gustabo- Agreed.  Though in other peoples music, listener perspective doesn't bother me.  In mine it does.  In my music, if I am playing drums on that song the perpective I am used to is obvious, but if I am out front on guitar for that song even though the kit is behind me I am still hearing it in drummer perspective so that's where I tend to want it on the record.  It's just a personal preference.

^ There's a reason that happens!

Not sure how to explain it, but I think of it like this:

You know when audio files are expanded, the sound stretches; yet, when it's compressed, the sound is tightly packed closer together? (When looking the waveform. Not to beconfused with Zoom/In/Out)

This is what's happening and you hear it back down sped up or slowed down (tempo - not pitch shift)

If the guitar in dead center, the meter is green often, but the further you pan over to either extreme, it gradually goes to red. This is because you've truncated the space in the spectrum; therefore, the sound gets louder (and the meter for that channel heads towards clipping) to compensate for it as only one channel (L or R is used instead of two (L and R). Of course, one channel could have more weight on it than the other depending on how far it is away from the center.

Remember being taught absolute value in math? That is how panning works! How far am I away from zero?

The piano is at -3dB, dead center (0); however, given what happens when it's panned to either side, that's what causes the clipping! The severely limited space of the sound being heard across the stereo field.

Pick any sweeping sound and pay attention to the meter! Regardless of what the volume is, once a wall (channel) is hit, the meter should bleed.

Again, as you pan, available space within that channel dwindles, so the sound increases in volume to compensate (that's why hard panning evokes clipping). This doesn't mean you can't do it as few tweaks to either volume or EQ (most often) will take care of it.

I may be off, so someone correct me if I am.

Rus I i'd still rather control that manally.  Maybe I am nuts?  Maybe I am wrong but if the fader needs to get boosted after a pan I am perfectly capable of doing that manually to my own taste ya know?