MP3ISTHEDEVIL

I don't know if I'd call it a "law," but if you're asking if this happens with most if not all DAWs, then I would think so!

 
 
No, This is an actual and intrecal part of mixing in Sonar6 as well as previous models.
 
Open Sonar and follow these steps.
 
Options/Audio/General Tab/Stereo Panning Law
Options displayed for selection are as follow-
 
0dB center, balance control
 
0dB center, sin/cos taper constant power
-3dB center, sin/cos taper constant power
 
0dB center, square-root taper constant power
-3dB center, square-root taper constant power
 
-6dB center, linear taper
 
I personally use 0dB center, balance control as it functions more like a balance control.  
And as you can see the others implement mathematical equations.
 
These "panning laws" are not all that uncommon and are used on some high-end mixing desks.
It would kind'a surprise me if they where not used on 6+ versions of Sonar.
(Ive been known to be wrong on more than one occasion however).
 
If you have a minute and have the inclination you should take a peak and see whats going on there.
The difference between settings on one of your mixes might really blow you away.
 
Let me know what you find out ! :  )
 
 
MP3ISTHEDEVIL
 
 
 
 
 

I see. I mispoke.

AT


If you have a stereo source, be sure to use the channel tools instead of pan.  It is a balance knob and LRC will often lose part of the stereo sound.  The Channel Tool is much more precise, too.

@

  AT, thanks for this information!

And thanks to all who have contributed to this very important subject!      

Slightly off-topic; does anyone know how to get a sound to sit precidely in a spot in the soundstage? For example, I'll be listening to a well-recorded CD and occasionally will hear a brief accent float right in the middle (or any point, really) of the soundstage. I have often wondered what technique is used to do that. Doesn't seem like simple panning to me.

Regards,
Dan

dcumpian


Slightly off-topic; does anyone know how to get a sound to sit precidely in a spot in the soundstage? For example, I'll be listening to a well-recorded CD and occasionally will hear a brief accent float right in the middle (or any point, really) of the soundstage. I have often wondered what technique is used to do that. Doesn't seem like simple panning to me.

Regards,
Dan

Dan, is there a way for you to give me a sample of what you're talking about? If I THINK I got this right, you basically hear something leap out at you within a mix...but it doesn't sound like a simple panned instrument, correct?
 
If I got it right, the answer(s) would be there is most likely an effect on that sound so that it has a bit of dimension to it. For example, we can pan something down the middle that has a stereo effect on it and then eq the stereo effect or phase it so it still sounds down the middle but picks up a mid-side stereo type effect to it as well.
 
For example, let's say we have a vocal panned down the middle. In a part of the song, there is a deep vocal that says the words "you lose" that is different than the lead vocal.
 
We want this "you lose" thing to stick out and not just be a deep voice down the middle. So we may put a stereo chorus on the sound with an imager that will control how wide or how crazy the chorus will sound on the voice. We may eq that chorus and then put a reverb in it with some pre-delay to enhance it more. It's amazing how eq can alter a stereo sound (and mind you, we're just eq-ing the effects here...not the voice eq) and then the stereo imager can place it where you want it as well as make it stick out a little more.
 
If the voice just had a stereo effect on it, it make look and sound like this: (note the (()) stands for the effect being sent from side to side. The word "vocal" in the middle stands for center pan.)
 
Left 100%((((((Vocal)))))Right 100%
 
With the imager and all the right processing, that vocal may look and sound like this:
 
Left 100%(((((((  (((Vocal)))  )))))))Right 100%
 
So we pick up "more than just a pan" when we do things this way. The same when you pan something to the side. This is one of the reasons I have always been against LCR panning. To me, it exhausts the hard pan fields leaving nothing else. The coolest thing is when you hear something creep in from the hard left/right sides to me. The reason it has more impact is because the entire mix was created without using hard pans. So when you hear something there for the first time, it leaps out at you.
 
That said, the same can be said for mixes that use LCR. You have the "in between" pans to bring in special effects which is also cool. But to me, there is just something really cool that happens when something hits from the hard left or right side for the first time in a mix that doesn't have a bunch of hard left and right pans. The impact is just better to my ears. Anyway, I hope this answers your question somewhat. :) If not, I'll try again. LOL!
 
-Danny

Hi Danny!
 
Yes, that's what I'm asking about. I hear it on lots of different CD's and, like you say, it is used as s.p.i.c.e. (got caught be a filter, I guess) Some really good examples can be found in Peter Gabriel's "Us" CD and several of Tori Amos's, particularly "To Venus and Back".
 
With stereo sources (like synths), is it better to record as mono (feed L + R to one channel), or use the Channel Tools to narrow the stereo image? I actually felt like I had better control of stereo sources when we used to use separate L and R tracks. I may go back to that someday...
 
Regards,
Dan
 

If a synth either hardware or VST offers a stereo output you must record it in stereo. It is a sin to not do so. You are missing out on an amazing world of imagery that can be setup so well within many synths. I have got a hold of a Roland JD800 at the moment and you should hear the stereo in that baby.

If you don't like what you hear for what ever reason then you can use plug ins like Channel tools to re set the image the way you want it. I had a Korg Wavestation that had some very wide patches. They were flipping phase and doing things like that in order to create the effect of some extra width etc. It was only in a few patches. Someone at Korg was trying some tricky programming in probably the effects section. It did not collapse well down to mono. In the end I think I inserted a phase reversal on one side and brought the image in slightly using channel tools and it was way better. It still had a grand image but sounded great in mono. Due to the image now being so robust and yet still great in stereo, I was able to lower it down by a mile in the mix and you could still hear it very well. Maximum illusion, minimum voltage.

None of that could have been done if that sound had been captured in mono. Because it collapsed so bad so if the patch had simply been mono-ed it might not have worked out nearly so well. 

Stereo interleaved tracks are easy to set up and it is not much effort to capture any instrument in stereo. 

Ambient pads often feature some creative panning. (Emulators allow you to modulate L-R panning of every voice within a total patch over its own range of panning with a sep LFO speed for every voice, touch response can effect all the panning options as well. You have got to hear something like this to believe it!) A lot of synth effects processors are great and very advanced allowing you to add/enhance the great stereo that is already there with all sorts of imagery later to a patch. Organ patches always make use of the stereo spread as do electric piano patches. Many samples are just plain recorded in stereo and sound great. Synths like Alchemy make use of the XY pad for incredible moves within the stereo image. Kurzweil patch layers can all be effected, panned and be moved dynamically.

Jeff Evans


If you don't like what you hear for what ever reason then you can use plug ins like Channel tools to re set the image the way you want it...

That's what I'm currently doing. I'm just struggling with a mix right now and am second guessing what I've done.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

Has anyone tried http://sleepytimerecords.com/audioplugins for panning?

Really learning here but I have a question.

For the small (16x20) home room studio, what is the better way to check/verify choices in panning?

Using monitors or head phones?

I tend to mix by monitors but find getting a good grasp of the panning is better through the cans. Is there a preferred method of doing it or is it by accepted figures printed out. I assume different songs will call for different pans.