• Techniques
  • Master Bus Compression - Do you use it? (p.3)
2012/09/18 10:34:34
batsbrew
i use an outboard compressor (DBX) on almost every track i put in, that isn't a direct track.

i use it for color, as much as anything else.

if i had a high enough quality 2-bus compressor, outboard, i would mix thru it, but since i don't, i searched high and low for a compressor (software) that would do what i wanted, the waves C1 works for me.


if you do not mix INTO a 2-bus compressor, and then add it after you are thru mixing, you will end up with overcompression on any tracks you have already applied compressor inserts on, in addition to any other bus compression.

i routinely use limiting on my bass bus, and sometimes on my drum bus, and i don't want to change any of those ratios by placing a compressor across the 2-bus AFTER i have already achieved my sounds on those other buses.

everybody has a different way of getting to the same place, i believe....
and mixing into the 2-bus compression has almost always been part of mine. dating back to analog days.

2012/09/18 18:50:10
Danny Danzi
mattplaysguitar


Danny, I'm interested by your hardware/software comment. You say you don't see the point of using software because the don't add color, and only hardware compressors add color. But wouldn't a software compressor that is trying to emulate a hardware compressor also emulate this color to some degree anyway, thus be good for the purpose still? Obviously don't want this to turn into a hardware vs software thread as there are far too many of them out there. Just that any shootouts of hardware vs software that I listen to, although they don't always sound exactly the same, all tend to at least get a general grasp on the color of the compressor it's trying to emulate. It may only get 80% there or be slightly different too, but it might be totally acceptable too? Just cause something sounds different to the real thing, doesn't mean it's a worse color, just that it's a DIFFERENT color. It could arguably sound better in certain applications.

Matt, I'll try to explain this as best as I can. When you record into, or run audio into a hardware device, it literally does something to the sound coloration wise that I haven't heard from any plugs yet. There is something about how the audio goes through the live circuitry that to me and others, makes a pretty incredible difference.
 
It reacts to the sound that is sent into it differently than when you add a plug to an already recorded track. Though modeling has come a long way, I can assure you, you end up with a much different sound and experience when you literally process through a hardware piece in real time as opposed to adding a plug that's been modeled.
 
Of all the plugs that I have tried that claim "tube saturation" or "warmth" to me it is NOT the same sound you get from hardware pieces. I sometimes wonder if the guys making these plugs may be in their 20's and may not have even used real hardware or we wouldn't be as far away as we are with this stuff. That said, of all the companies, UAD in my honest opinion, is the closest to having it down. I say this due to having some of the hardware they have simulated as well as still having a 16 track 1 inch and a 24 track 2 inch for tape machines here. I know how they sound and how they react. Tape saturation/hardware saturation does NOT come by way of ugly digital clipping. That's how these plugs sound to me. You don't get that sound out of a hardware piece even if you use it to the extreme. It's a different type of clipping and before it gets there, the "golden" sound you get hasn't been done in any plugs I've tried other than some of the UAD stuff.
 
That said, when you mix into a compressor that has coloration or a GOOD saturation sound, your outcome is much different than if you used a digital compressor. I find absolutely no change in my sound coloration wise when using a regular digital comp plug. Turn off a hardware comp running through your system, and the tone literally changes due to it passing through the circuitry. This in turn forces you to come up with a different eq curve than you would have without it. That is the purpose of it. To color and lightly compress/glue the mix AS you mix. If you were to turn off this hardware comp in the middle of mixing your song, your tonality in the mix will change also. This is not the case with digital comp plugs in MY experience. They compress and that's it. They don't alter the tone to where you would notice tonality changes in your mix if you killed them.
 
That said, I'm sincerely not trying to make this sound like I'm "pro hardware". I am not and am happy I sold a lot of my stuff due to how the UAD and other plugs process. I'm not really into "the coloration thing" to be honest. I am not crazy about warm, analog tone. To me, those tones died in the 70's....I appreciate the broad frequency range we have now with tighter subs and high end air that you would never hear back in the days of classic rock etc. I like mixes that aren't so warm that allow some highs to give things more impact. I hate when things are so warm, a snare drum sounds like you're hitting a cardboard box or a bass has no "ting" or percussive attack to it. I hate when a guitar sounds like the word "yug" (darker) instead of the word "yah". (brighter)
 
That said, people will hate what I like...and that's ok. The point is, if you REALLY want to mix INTO a compressor, it's only fair that you do it that correct way which is what started the whole thing. To answer your question about a digital comp being better in certain situations, most definitely! But for a 2-bus situation where you are supposed to mix into a colored compressor, it's a night and day difference that you would need to try for yourself.
 
Like Jeff and that C2 he loves so much. Nothing compares to that thing. Seriously. From him using that so often, he is spoiled. There aren't too many plug comps that can even be "acceptable" compared to that compressor. I would like to hear his thoughts about the Fatso Jr. or Fatso Sr. though because in my opinion, they would be the closest as they really do a nice job with compressing as well as a full range of controlled coloration. And it doesn't just sound like a filter on the plug to control highs and lows...it literally changes the sound as it pumps through the Fatso. The more you use, the more you hear it effect tonality instead of just compressing. This is the comp I use when I DO use the 2-bus thing.
 
But when I'm not, I would rather have nothing on my master bus. I'll handle all that at the mastering stage and really do not feel it is necessary for me to process a mix with any type of compression other than what goes on my tracks individually. If I had to rely on a compressor on my master bus to make me think it sounds that much better than without (and this is not me having a go at you or anyone else, honest) I'd definitely take a different approach to my mixing strategy. I can get away with no compression on any of my tracks other than the small amount I record with using hardware gear. I like to condition my signal slightly to keep things at -6 dB so I lightly comp at about -1 dB of gain reduction (give or take, sometimes more sometimes less depending on the sound and performance) with a 2:1 ratio or sometimes a 1.5:1 going in on just about everything.
 
Anyway, I hope some of this explains things better for you. All I can say is if you had like a Manley Slam or an ELOP or even a real Fairchild, you'd know what I mean when you mix through them and then use a plug. The marketers may claim "it's near exact!" but trust me bro...we still have a long way to go on some of this stuff in my professional opinion as well as my years of experience with this stuff. But if something works for you and it sounds good, stick with it. I just wanted to point out the "old way" method of doing this as well as WHY it was (and still is) done that way. :)
 
-Danny 

2012/09/19 15:33:31
IK Obi
I can understand what you're saying, but it also depends on the audio gear you are running it through as well. Digital wise we are getting closer and closer every year. I'm at a point where I can't tell a difference and I hear a bigger impact with the music, performance and song itself. One day we'll be there. :)
2012/09/26 06:18:15
brucecage
I begin ALL tracking and mixing with the end in mind. So there may be compression, widening, EQ, and other stuff in the master under the cover of OZONE... As I add tracks, I immediately add the plugs I think are needed to the tracks or in many cases .... plugs are not needed so not added. But as I work I hear what this project will sound like.
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