• Hardware
  • Presonus FaderPort: Good, Bad Ugly? (p.2)
2018/03/07 19:42:57
Audioicon
Jeff Evans
I would never connect any USB device with a 30 foot cable. 


In normal circumstances, yes. No arguments here. But the reason I purchased the FaderPort is to use it at my composing station/desk. By the way it's 25ft, still too long but just an FYI.

In my studio I have two sections: Sections A: For Mixing, Mastering and so on.
Here, I used a cascaded Mackie MCU.

Section B: For recording/composing/editing.
Here I need a Transport (FaderPort).

Sure I can use a computer keyboard but it does not work for me in-terms of creativity and ergonomics..

The issue here is, I have a single computer shared between the station, so I need the transport to be able to reach the computer.


Jeff Evans
Another option is a PCI card that provides USB ports.


I already installed a Sonnet Allegro USB 3 Pro, one of the best cards for my Audio Interface:
I also have a very decent MOBO but not sure how the USB post are configured.

After I posted last night, I re-configured the USB ports for the FaderPort and everything is working as needed.
Now I am not sure if it will still work like this always. The nice thing about the FaderPort is that when I touch anything it controls the Mackie MCU (if the MCU is on).

Long story short, I could move the computer between stations but that will be a while.





2018/03/08 06:56:17
azslow3
Your symptom indicate the device disconnects/reconnects. When that happens, devices/ports in Windows change. Sonar (current version) is especially picky about that (some bugs).
 
I would recommend:
1) check that USB power management in Windows in disabled.
2) try powered USB hub. F.e. I use 10m powered hub and all devices are working fine with it.
2018/03/08 13:49:48
iRelevant
Audioicon
[...]
I connected it via a 30ft USB cable, the performed the setup as required.
[...]

I'm not absolutely certain about this, but think the specifications for USB indicates a max. cable length of 5m (ca. 15 foot) for USB2, and max. 3 m for USB3. For USB1 I don't know, but assume it's the same as for USB2. 
Problem with a to long cable is that you likely get communication error between device and computer. 
2018/03/08 16:43:40
azslow3
iRelevant
Audioicon
[...]
I connected it via a 30ft USB cable, the performed the setup as required.
[...]

I'm not absolutely certain about this, but think the specifications for USB indicates a max. cable length of 5m (ca. 15 foot) for USB2, and max. 3 m for USB3. For USB1 I don't know, but assume it's the same as for USB2. 
Problem with a to long cable is that you likely get communication error between device and computer.

Do you have trusted reference for exact length? I have seen many places which reference "5m". Interesting that I have not found this (not any other concrete) number in the USB specification 
They describe it in different terms:

* The maximum allowable cable length is determined by signal pair attenuation and propagation delay.
...
* The maximum cable length is limited by the voltage drop across the GND lead

Followed by the table for particular electrical limits.
 
From theory to practice. As I have already mentioned, I use 10m (32.8ft) separately powered USB hub for more then 3 years. And I was using it with: TC Helicon GTX Play (firmware updates, presets exchange, audio interface), DP (MIDI) and VS-20 (MIDI controller, audio interface). I had no problems with any of these devices. They all are USB1.1. But (one strip) Faderport is also USB1.1 
 
 
2018/03/08 18:03:41
JonD
There's always the wireless alternative.  If you already own an iPad or Android tablet, it might be worth looking into the controller apps out there.
2018/03/09 04:15:51
Audioicon
azslow3
Your symptom indicate the device disconnects/reconnects. When that happens, devices/ports in Windows change. Sonar (current version) is especially picky about that (some bugs).


So here is something else I am noticing:
I have several Mackie MCU/XT, the main MCU unit is connected to the computer via USB but I do not keep the device on when not in use. When I turn the MCU off, it's USB port under devices in Sonar disappears. When this happens, the FaderPort jumps to another MIDI device port.
The Mackie MCU USB Ports are not available in Sonar when the MCU is switch off.
NOTE: The MCU is not USB Powered.

This morning I went to the studio and turn on the computer to confirm that the FaderPort has stopped working and when I checked connectivity I noticed the FaderPort was communicating on a different MIDI device port.

I switched it back to "FaderPort" and everything started to work as needed. I restarted the computer and even shut down the computer and everything still works. However as soon as I add another USB device and turn the device off, the FaderPort jumps ship.

Unlike the FaderPort, the MCU does not have drivers of Firmware for computer so they are like removable devices, meaning as soon as you plug it in then the ports come to life.


azslow3
1) check that USB power management in Windows in disabled.
 


Yes I noticed the Power setting were set to balanced, I switched to High Performance and it's like the world has changed, I can feel gravity. Hopefully this helps.


azslow3
2) try powered USB hub. F.e. I use 10m powered hub and all devices are working fine with it.


I have never used a USB hub before but you've got me thinking. Lets say I get a HUB and use like a 15FT Cable  to the HUB, will using another 15 from the Hub Mitigate any issues with USB cable length?

Given the FaderPort cost me $129.00, I honestly do not mind the extra headache. At least it does not screw up between projects for me and so I am happy with it.

Thanks my friend.



2018/03/09 04:18:18
Audioicon
JonD
There's always the wireless alternative.  If you already own an iPad or Android tablet, it might be worth looking into the controller apps out there.


I know this is going to sound counter intuitive but I hate touching screens and Wireless connectivity. I am a young but very old soul addicted to knobs and sliders. 

Maybe some day.


2018/03/09 15:38:36
TheMaartian
Audioicon
JonD
There's always the wireless alternative.  If you already own an iPad or Android tablet, it might be worth looking into the controller apps out there.

I know this is going to sound counter intuitive but I hate touching screens and Wireless connectivity. I am a young but very old soul addicted to knobs and sliders. 

Maybe some day.

A New Age Luddite!
 
All good, dude! I completely agree with you...and I'm probably the age of your grandparents. 
 
Until my stubbornness starts to cost me a lot of money and headaches.
 
My studio is currently in my loft and my vocal 'booth' is elsewhere in the house. I tried lots of different 'solutions'. The one I settled on was Studio One Pro on my PC and Studio One Remote on an old Android tablet that hasn't gotten an update for almost 3 years.
 
That combo works really well. It gives me remote transport control, and metering and gain control for the incoming audio. It's the metering and gain control that stand out. As far as I know, TouchOSC and other OSC apps don't provide live metering. If others know of a way to accomplish that with OSC, please advise.
 
In any case, for this specific narrow use case, wireless proved to be the best solution.
 
So I guess it's kind of a good thing that my voice sucks and I don't use the remote app often. LOL
2018/03/09 17:09:05
Audioicon
TheMaartian
Audioicon
JonD
There's always the wireless alternative.  If you already own an iPad or Android tablet, it might be worth looking into the controller apps out there.

I know this is going to sound counter intuitive but I hate touching screens and Wireless connectivity. I am a young but very old soul addicted to knobs and sliders. 

Maybe some day.

A New Age Luddite!
 
All good, dude! I completely agree with you...and I'm probably the age of your grandparents. 
 
Until my stubbornness starts to cost me a lot of money and headaches.
 
My studio is currently in my loft and my vocal 'booth' is elsewhere in the house. I tried lots of different 'solutions'. The one I settled on was Studio One Pro on my PC and Studio One Remote on an old Android tablet that hasn't gotten an update for almost 3 years.
 
That combo works really well. It gives me remote transport control, and metering and gain control for the incoming audio. It's the metering and gain control that stand out. As far as I know, TouchOSC and other OSC apps don't provide live metering. If others know of a way to accomplish that with OSC, please advise.
 
In any case, for this specific narrow use case, wireless proved to be the best solution.
 
So I guess it's kind of a good thing that my voice sucks and I don't use the remote app often. LOL



Very very interesting:
First I have to tell you, the Presonus is growing into an industry giant and they and bringing out some really great stuff. I am thinking about switching to Studio One just because of the controllers alone, I really love what's going on down there.

So back to this topic, I used to have the same problem but I use a Display Port and a Wireless Mouse. Using a Display Port, you can have up to 50ft Cable from your computer to your Monitor.

In the Booth I have a Monitor, a Wireless Keyboard and a Mouse. And so I can see and control everything.
But I have to tell you, the way you explain this thing has got me thinking.

However, unfortunately I did not get Studio One when the sale thing and the Sonar Craze was going on. Hopefully by the end of the year. My focus has been on Cubase.

Thank you for the input and great insight.


2018/03/09 17:21:47
TheMaartian
Audioicon
 
...
So back to this topic, I used to have the same problem but I use a Display Port and a Wireless Mouse. Using a Display Port, you can have up to 50ft Cable from your computer to your Monitor.

In the Booth I have a Monitor, a Wireless Keyboard and a Mouse. And so I can see and control everything.
But I have to tell you, the way you explain this thing has got me thinking.
...

Clever. Not one of the solutions I considered.
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