• Hardware
  • Presonus FaderPort: Good, Bad Ugly? (p.4)
2018/03/09 20:14:12
Audioicon
Midiboy
I don't use the Pan Knob.  Even though technically, it does Zero out, it just doesn't display it in the scribble properly...

I hit the Pan button and use the sliders instead. 




Does your Pan button collapse? Meaning does it depress when your press it? Mine does not.
2018/03/09 20:40:44
Jeff Evans
Audioicon
 

If one have to read a manual to operate the FaderPort, then either you are a total MIDI novice or the FaderPort is extremely complex. I have to say that I have the Yamaha Montage and Korg Kronos and have not read the manual.

The FaderPort did not come with a manual, I think there is a reason, however there is a manual on Presonus website.




Not reading the manual is not something to be proud of.  In fact it is a bit dumb.  Faderport 8/16 are complex devices and unless you read the manual you will never get to know what they can fully do.  Same with Montage.  Without the manual you will be extracting about 10% of its power.  The rest you will never know about.  It is way complex.  (Read the SOS review, it sounds incredibly complex)  If you only want to use a fraction of its ability then that is fine then.  
 
I have a Kurzweil PC3K and the manual is over an inch thick! I think I know it until I open up that book.  It never ceases to blow me away.
 
They say this is the age of the manual! Even when I read the Waves plug-in manuals fully I pickup about half a dozen things I never know they could do.  There are little hidden things here and there.  Click on that tiny little symbol down in the corner and boom, a whole new page opens up with a raft of settings.  You would simply never find it without the manual. 
 
Why are people reluctant? 
2018/03/09 21:14:16
Audioicon
Jeff Evans
Audioicon
 

If one have to read a manual to operate the FaderPort, then either you are a total MIDI novice or the FaderPort is extremely complex. I have to say that I have the Yamaha Montage and Korg Kronos and have not read the manual.

The FaderPort did not come with a manual, I think there is a reason, however there is a manual on Presonus website.




Not reading the manual is not something to be proud of.  In fact it is a bit dumb.  Faderport 8/16 are complex devices and unless you read the manual you will never get to know what they can fully do.  Same with Montage.  Without the manual you will be extracting about 10% of its power.  The rest you will never know about.  It is way complex.  (Read the SOS review, it sounds incredibly complex)  If you only want to use a fraction of its ability then that is fine then.  
 
I have a Kurzweil PC3K and the manual is over an inch thick! I think I know it until I open up that book.  It never ceases to blow me away.
 
They say this is the age of the manual! Even when I read the Waves plug-in manuals fully I pickup about half a dozen things I never know they could do.  There are little hidden things here and there.  Click on that tiny little symbol down in the corner and boom, a whole new page opens up with a raft of settings.  You would simply never find it without the manual. 
 
Why are people reluctant? 




I have the FaderPort, not the 8 or the 16 and I already use the Mackie MCU. Regardless, both of these devices barely have manuals.

Maybe I stated this wrong, a great device does not require complex manuals.
Audio devices/MIDI all have straight forward specification and because of these specifications, I do not think manuals are necessary read but mostly optional.

In my opinion it's like driving a car, if I go out and buy a new car, regardless of the brand, I should be able to perform all of it's standard function without reading a manual.

If I have to read the manual of my car to know how to center the car on the road, then I am in serious trouble.
Same for MIDI devices, yes some feature are not apparent but in my opinion that's bad design because I want to be creativity, not spend my time in Manuals.

Manuals for me are not perquisites but rather reference to something I may need to do that is not ordinary but I have never had to read manuals to operate any musical equipment, at least not initially.





2018/03/09 21:31:21
azslow3
Audioicon
In my opinion it's like driving a car, if I go out and buy a new car, regardless of the brand, I should be able to perform all of it's standard function without reading a manual.

If I have to read the manual of my car to know how to center the car on the road, then I am in serious trouble.
Same for MIDI devices, yes some feature are not apparent but in my opinion that's bad design because I want to be creativity, not spend my time in Manuals.

If your new vehicle is of the same type as previous, that statement if valid.
But if you had a bike and you have replaced it with a helicopter, that is different.
 
Each Control Surface producer program different functionality and operations for each device. Physical controls, unlike with cars, have NO fixed meaning for the DAW. When the "steering wheel" can start to control something else after software update, it is better to check the manual before pressing the gas pedal
2018/03/09 21:36:30
Jeff Evans
I thought you had Faderport 8/16.  Faderport 1 is much easier I agree.  By the way you can centre it in fact, all you have to do is just turn it and slow down when close to the centre.  The movement is still indented and there is a spot where the 'C' will show up.  In Studio One you can also just Ctrl click on the pan pot in the mixer and it also instantly goes to centre.
 
I know what you are getting at re manuals too.  Yes many things can be used and operated without them of course but on the other side of the coin there is often a ton of stuff you just can't stumble onto or happen to find.  You have to read about it and learn about it first.  (I could not find the second fusebox in my Toyota Corolla until I read the manual. There are two. One is in the engine bay but the other is in a very secret place!!!)
 
I mean with something like a seriously complex synth such as the Kurzweil or Montage you will never what it can do until you look into it a bit deeper.  I mean there are even dual button pushes in my case that access features. You will never find that unless you consult the manual
 
And then there is the situation where the manual is not very good either.  Such as in Studio One.  It is way behind in documentation of all the new features and you have to watch the video tutorials etc in order to learn everything. 
 
 
2018/03/09 22:07:22
Audioicon
Jeff Evans
I thought you had Faderport 8/16.  Faderport 1 is much easier I agree.  By the way you can centre it in fact, all you have to do is just turn it and slow down when close to the centre.  The movement is still indented and there is a spot where the 'C' will show up.  In Studio One you can also just Ctrl click on the pan pot in the mixer and it also instantly goes to centre.
 
I know what you are getting at re manuals too.  Yes many things can be used and operated without them of course but on the other side of the coin there is often a ton of stuff you just can't stumble onto or happen to find.  You have to read about it and learn about it first.  (I could not find the second fusebox in my Toyota Corolla until I read the manual. There are two. One is in the engine bay but the other is in a very secret place!!!)
 
I mean with something like a seriously complex synth such as the Kurzweil or Montage you will never what it can do until you look into it a bit deeper.  I mean there are even dual button pushes in my case that access features. You will never find that unless you consult the manual
 
And then there is the situation where the manual is not very good either.  Such as in Studio One.  It is way behind in documentation of all the new features and you have to watch the video tutorials etc in order to learn everything. 
 


I am using Sonar so I will try to mess around with the Pan again but there is no center. It misses it by 1 and I also noticed the the increment and decrements is not +- 1 per indentation as you turn but sometimes 2. I turn the knob very slowly and when it gets to 99 then it jumps to 1. It's off by 1.

Regarding manuals, I do not think we have a disagreement, I have been a MIDI engineer for over 20 years. And I always say, if you have to read a manual to perform basic operation of a device then either the device is too complex or you are a novice to the core concept.

I think for musical equipment, there is a fine line between allowing and inspiring creativity to just standing in the way with overly complex features.

When I got the Roland Integra 7, I just plugged it in and put the manual in storage with the box. I was able to do everything I need right up front. I am sure I will refer back for other super advanced or proprietary feature but for the standard and everyday operation it was extremely simple.


2018/03/09 22:17:36
Midiboy
Audioicon
Midiboy
Jeff, nice!  I should read the manual!  lol.  What I like about it, I didn't need to get it up and running.  It was pretty self explanatory to me.  That's a good tip though. 



If one have to read a manual to operate the FaderPort, then either you are a total MIDI novice or the FaderPort is extremely complex. I have to say that I have the Yamaha Montage and Korg Kronos and have not read the manual.

The FaderPort did not come with a manual, I think there is a reason, however there is a manual on Presonus website.




I never read any manual, honestly.  Except if I have to put together some stupid press board furniture...then I read the manual, getting angrier and angrier at the blokes that wrote it. 
2018/03/09 22:19:01
Jeff Evans
Yes there may be something going on with the way the pan pot works with Sonar for sure.  With Studio One anyway I can always get in the centre.  It is always incrementing by '1' (when turning slowly) and therefore the 'C' is just one of the positions that shows up.
 
There are a couple of fancy features it also does in Studio One.  Its not until you read the manual though you find them out. 
 
I think Faderport 8/16 has some very cool features with Studio One only.  I know Faderport 1 was intended for more than one DAW but it does work rather well in Studio One though.  Funnily enough I use it so well I am not hankering for the FP8/16.
 
What is very cool though is the way the new Presonus Series III studio/live mixing desks work with Studio One. They are like a FP 8/16 on steroids! They switch between normal mixer mode and DAW mode.  Also the CS18Ai is a pretty cool Studio One controller as well.  More expensive options of course.  But they perform a raft of other functions as well. 
2018/03/09 22:20:40
Midiboy
And before Mr. Manual rebukes me for not reading the manual, I pretty much have the FaderPort figured out on my own.  Everything is labeled nice, and if there is a question, YouTube has the answer.
 
I never read the manual on my Komplete, my Komplete Kontrol keyboards, (I have 2), Sonar, Studio One, my Korg Karma, Roland Juno G, and I make do pretty well.  Just sayin'.
 
:)
2018/03/09 23:39:05
Audioicon
Midiboy
Mr. Manual.


Now that's original!
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