I'd be interested to know if anyone else just uses the NI Drummer's onboard mixer to mix their drums, instead routing the drums to individual tracks. I'm quite lazy when it comes to setting multi outs (not even sure how to do it in Sonar yet anyway) and have just been using the mixer that's in NI's Drummer series. It just seems like I can do everything I need to for the individual drums in there: set levels, pan, compression, EQ, transient shaping etc. To my ear it sounds pretty good!

I recently got Komplete and while I have looked at Studio Drummer and 60's Drummer I am yet to get to grips with them. However I could see no way of assigning multi outs. Most of my other Kontakt drum kits (Steven Slate, Sonic Reality) are Kontakt Multis (ie each drum is a different Kontakt instrument), this makes setting up separate outs possible. The Drummer series are single instruments, normally in Kontakt a single instrument can just be assigned one out.
 
The 60's Drummer manual makes no mention of setting up seperate outs.

I'm sure you can probably get some decent results on-board, and if you're happy with that, then it's fine! I personally prefer to send everything out individually and eventually bounce down to audio because I just like working that way. It does provide more options too and allow you to use your own plugs to achieve what you want. For example, I might want a nice big reverb just for the snare but nothing else to give it a huge sound but without sounding washed out. And then I'll probably want to eq that reverb to sit it nicely in the mix. And then I might double that snare and apply parallel processing (compression, eq, distortion etc) to blend back in with the original for more punchy grit if it needs it. Can't do all that inside a drum sampler plug! But then again, you may not need/want to take your drum processing that far in the first place!

So I'd say in your case (specifically, you mention being lazy!!), just use it inside the plug and if you hit a point where you can't achieve a sound that you want with the options inside the plug, split it up then. Otherwise, no real reason to worry about it if you aren't too bothered either way.

I nearly always end up using my own effects. Even if the synth has decent built-in effects there's always something I want to do that I can't do within the synth's own mixer. Plus I usually end up freezing and unloading soft synths, making it impossible to tweak them without first unfreezing. Routing to separate audio tracks solves all these problems.

Yeah it's a shame you can't route your own plugs into Drummer's mixer, that would be nice! I guess I'll have to learn how to multi out in Kontakt eventually, I just remember it being a pain in Pro Tools and I've since forgotten how you do it. 

Glyn, it is possible, look for videos on YouTube. There's an option in Kontakt where you assign stereo or mono outs, which subsequently become visible in your DAW. 

I use BFD2 which has a similar feature, but I bounce it all out to Audio tracks and edit/mix/pan/effect from there. 

I hate the drums... They take way too much time, and people always complain about mine anyway. Drums suck.

sharke



Glyn, it is possible, look for videos on YouTube. There's an option in Kontakt where you assign stereo or mono outs, which subsequently become visible in your DAW. 

 
I found this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvdl__b5ZM its part 2 but part one just deals with the basics of adding Outputs to the Kontakt mixer.
 
However this video and everthing else i found while googleing is for the older Abbey Road drums, the new Abbey Road 60's Drummer mixer looks quite different. Presumably the same method applies? I am travelling at the moment and won't be able to try this out for a while so I would appreciate any feedback if some one has it working.  I have an NI voucher that will expire soon and I may use it on 80's Drummer IF the multi outs work.
  

 

For what it's worth, in my opinion the Kontakt player with these newer kits are an absolute bear to set up in a multi-instance. Even when you DO get them right, there are still some issues I'm seeing that are driving me ballistic.

You must configure the mixer in Kontak so you can send your tracks the right way. Then, you must configure the mixer in the drum module (outs on each track in the module) to be sent into the mixer in Kontakt. From there, the mixer options will appear in your virtual Sonar tracks. This took me so long, I nearly gave up. I hate Kontakt and wish they would create something better that is easier to use.

Also, when you kill the effects on these new kits, it can really save on your cpu. I don't think the effects are anything to brag about, so kill them. But the mixer thing sharke...complete nightmare with any of the Abbey drums as well as Studio Drummer. I'm so glad I've done all this and can just drop my stuff in as a track template. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy...ok, maybe I would...lol...but it's no fun and takes some experimenting and time to set it all up.

There are a few things to consider. 

How many drums will you be sending to virtual tracks? Once you know, the version of Kontakt you use is important. Not the version number. Version meaning Kontakt, Kontakt 8, Kontakt 16 outs. I use the 16 version so I can route my instruments sort of individually due to being a drum control freak. Kick, snare, hats, and individual toms all have their own tracks. Cymbals come through the over heads so I route them and "room" in stereo. But it's a bear and I wish it could be easier. I thought BFD 2 was a bit much as well, but it's a piece of cake compared to what I had to do in Kontakt.

Even when I do this as best as I can, there are still a few quirks as well as some mismatched names that come up in my Sonar input options to Kontakt. The internal mixer in Kontakt is the problem. That's where you have to do the majority of your work. Not the mixer in the drum program you use, but the Kontakt mixer. You have to set each output up and it's a bit confusing. To be honest, you're better off using it the way you are right now as this will suck the life out of you doing it the way I do it.

-Danny

You're right about things being a pain in Kontakt, in fact I think everything's a pain in general with NI stuff, as much as I love it. Part of the problem is that their UI's are like something from the 1990's. It's not particularly user friendly. 

I had multi-outs set up in Pro Tools but I can't remember exactly how I did it! And I seem to remember having trouble saving the outputs as default...or something. Major headache, yes. You wonder why they don't sit down and think "well, people are going to want to send these drums to different tracks, so let's make it easy to set up with a couple of clicks instead of this goddam ordeal they have to go through right now." 

Glyn Barnes

sharke



Glyn, it is possible, look for videos on YouTube. There's an option in Kontakt where you assign stereo or mono outs, which subsequently become visible in your DAW. 

 
I found this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAvdl__b5ZM its part 2 but part one just deals with the basics of adding Outputs to the Kontakt mixer.
 
However this video and everthing else i found while googleing is for the older Abbey Road drums, the new Abbey Road 60's Drummer mixer looks quite different. Presumably the same method applies? I am travelling at the moment and won't be able to try this out for a while so I would appreciate any feedback if some one has it working.  I have an NI voucher that will expire soon and I may use it on 80's Drummer IF the multi outs work.
  

 

Here's one that seems to be a fairly good explanation:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-e5mpt5ic 


It's geared towards Logic but the actual setting up of the outputs in Kontakt is explained pretty well. One thing I'd forgotten about which threw me the first time I did it was the need to reboot Kontakt after you set up the outputs, so that they appear in the drop down when you go to select the output for each drum.