Skull, you made me paranoid... I was thinking... darn mike... I haven't regularly run a compressor on a snare in a long time... am I getting that lazy?

So I typed in "best compressor for snare" in Google and got this page:

http://www.gearslutz.com/...-snare-compressor.html

I stopped reading after the first 1-1/2 pages.

All Geartslutz "what is the best x for y" threads are like that. People complain all the time that these threads are stupid, and they are, since there is no best x for any sort of y really, there are just different flavors. But, those threads continue to proliferate over there.

In terms of the attack, there's fast and there's fast. Something like an 1176 can pretty much trim the leading edge off of most anything, with a maximum (or minimum, according to how you look at it) attack of 20us. Lots of comps only go as low as a couple ms, which is fast, but not super fast and will still let a good bit of attack through on something like a snare or a fast strummed acoustic part.

But anyway, the above discussion is kind of part of the point I was making. There are as many ways to use a compressor as there are combinations of types of instruments, types of compressors, types of music, and types of people using compressors. There is no formula. I've read hundreds of discussions about tracking and mixing, and watched lots of documentaries and tutorials by good engineers and mixers. There are a gazzillion ways to go about it.

If you follow a single recipe, you'll probably never end up finding a tithe of them. For instance, you aren't likely to, using the above formula, figure out that you can create some cool bass distortion by setting the release way too fast on an 1176 type comp. Or how to create a subtly pumping mix by allowing the low end to drive the compression a little too much with a quick attack and release on a mix (not that I do that, but plenty of people do.)

Some people us master bus comrpession that has a fast (2ms'ish) attack and long release with a very mild ratio. Some do a longer 10ms release with a higher ratio and shorter release, or an auto release. It depends on whether you want to smooth it a bit or punch it up a bit.  Some people go for the pumping effect mentioned above.

There are only really three variables, attack, release and ratio. It's not like they present you with such a bewildering array of options that you have to follow a formula every time you use them. Experiment and try things. The point isn't to achieve a particular effect, it's to create interesting sounds. Sometimes you know exactly what sound you want, and you'll learn what settings create that on what compressors you have. Sometimes it's better to just play around and see what happens. That's how you learn things.

THANKS JIFF! (Aussie for Jeff)
 
I found your post to extremely useful. I feel like it was aimed at me - experienced musician - pitiful engineer. It is amazing how much effort so many well meaning folks put into explaining how a compressor works without telling you how to actually use it. I know how a compressor works intellectually - but everytime I use one I feel like its a shot in the dark.
 
Of course, if I could sit with an experienced engineer for a couple of years, I'm sure I could get the hang of it :)

mike_mccue


"Letting the transient slip through, but using compression to bring out the decay of individual drums is a pretty common."

Is it possible you mean to bring down the decay?

I sorta like the body of a snare hit so I might just as likely use a fast compressor like a 1176 type to bring up the decay by bringing down the snap... so I can turn it all up... to bring out the decay.

best,
mike

You're exaclty right, Mike.  I don't even know what the hell I was saying when I responded earlier!
 
Fast attack with high ratios can give the impression of a louder drum decay....when in fact, it's the attack that is being altered.  My bad...

mgreene

THANKS JIFF! (Aussie for Jeff)
 
I found your post to extremely useful. I feel like it was aimed at me - experienced musician - pitiful engineer. It is amazing how much effort so many well meaning folks put into explaining how a compressor works without telling you how to actually use it. I know how a compressor works intellectually - but everytime I use one I feel like its a shot in the dark.
 
Of course, if I could sit with an experienced engineer for a couple of years, I'm sure I could get the hang of it :)

The thing is though, no one can tell you. This is a fundamental issue that makes for a fairly ironic problem. You won't figure out how to really use it, until you realize why no one can tell you how to really use it. It's not a tool designed to do a specific thing. It's a creative tool, like a guitar or wood lathe. People can tell you how to operate it. But until you build up your own callouses or ruin a lot of pieces of wood, you won't really understand it.
 
If your purpose is to learn, as apposed to finish a song, then probably the best thing to do is sit down with something like a snare drum track that just is banging on 2 and 4 or whatever constantly. Just play with the knobs relentlessly in every combination and see what that does to the sound. That's how you'll really learn it, because the point of learning how to use a compressor is to use it creatively, not to repeat a formula. There will be many ways that that snare can be compressed which might be cool in a given situation. Then try something different, like a strummed guitar part, then a vocal, then a kick drum, then a bass, i.e. things that have very different attack/decay characteristics, because difference attack/decay characteristics of the track being compressed will interact differently with any given attack/decay settings on the compressor.
 
If you do this studiously, you'll learn a LOT in a fairly short period of time. Try radical stuff and try subtle stuff, and listen to the results. When you then listen to commercial tracks, try to hear, oh yeh, they are using a fast attack and fast release on the snare or the room mics. Or they are using heavy compression with a fast attack and medium release on that acoustic guitar part to really even out and soften the attacks, etc...
 

It is good to have rules to learn how to use them.  It is good to break rules once you know them.

Geez, I'm profund today.

Jeff's procedure is a good one, both for learning to use a comp and as a methodology to get the sound quickly.  That being said, I'm an inverarate knob tweaker.

@

I would say that, in most cases, a fast attack is very desirable.

I thought I was the only one who thought this.  I've read all sorts of compressor "tips" about giving something more "punch" by using a longer attack.  But whenever I have a track that needs more "punch" and I try to use a compressor (or transient shaper) to "punch" it up, it never sounds as good as just re-recording the track in a punchier manner. 

But that probably just highlights my ineptitude at compressor settings.

(low frequencies hate fast attacks, tho...)

So, according to droddey, the best way to learn how to use a compressor is to just plug it in and start twisting the knobs. Don't worry about what those knobs do, don't worry about the order or markings, just start twisting until you get where you want to go.

Probably the same with eq, reverb, delays and echo, anything at all including volume and pan, just twist the knobs untill the whole thing magically comes together.

I can't wait to get my first cd mixed and mastered in your studio.

Later
Albert

Skull, no worries over here... thanks for clarify what you were thinking about.

I'm still trying to create a personal dialog for working with different tempos... every now and then I think of the same way you might set up delay timings... but you have to account for hold time somehow so it is not as simple as just adding your attack and release times. I try to stay aware of how much time I have before I have to get out of the way for the next hit or pulse.

I also enjoy using slow attack times on occasions and lately have been using my hardware compressors to perform into... it seems to inspire a performance style when you can push into the compressor. If I was really slick I would just use them on monitor and then save the real compression for post... but I have been just tracking with them. It is sort of unnecessary to track with a real fast compressor... because you should just turn it down in the input and up in the monitors... and compress later when you mix, but the slow compressors like the LA2A style give you a effect that really does seem to change the way you perform.

FWIW I routinely use a limiter when recording for my day job TV sound work... but that's because there is often no chance for rehearsal or retakes.

best regards,
mike

gamblerschoice


So, according to droddey, the best way to learn how to use a compressor is to just plug it in and start twisting the knobs. Don't worry about what those knobs do, don't worry about the order or markings, just start twisting until you get where you want to go.

Probably the same with eq, reverb, delays and echo, anything at all including volume and pan, just twist the knobs untill the whole thing magically comes together.

I can't wait to get my first cd mixed and mastered in your studio.

Later
Albert

Obviously I didn't say anything like that. I said that there are no formulas and that you should try everything you can. I also said that there are basically only three axes involved in a compressor, attack, release and ratio. If you don't already have some basic idea what those mean, then you are wasting your time. Obviously the original poster has that basic understanding. The best way to learn how to use them is to just try them. There aren't that many broad combinations to go through. Since any given settings will work differently on any given type of material, there's no way to give people cookie cutter formulas to use. Newbies should just play with all kinds of combinations, on different types of tracks, and pay careful attention to the results.
 
And of course you don't just turn knobs until a mix magically come together. I said, pick individual tracks of various types of material and try lots of compression combinations on them to see what it does to them. Listen careful to all those variations to understand what the compressor does to various types of instruments on various types of settings. This is how you really learn what a compressor does. At first make fairly large changes so you can really hear obvious differences, then start working with more subtle changes to see what they do. 
 
Then, when it comes mix time, and you think, hmmm... that kick has too much attack, or there's too much ring in those toms, or that vocal needs smoothing out a bit, or it would be nice to thicken that strummed guitar part, etc... you can use the experience you gained while experiementing with kicks and toms to know what you want to do.
 
Ultimately only experience is going to really allow you to master these tools. I'm just suggesting ways to ummm... compress more experience into a shorter period of time, by using experimentation in a very focused way. This is not exactly some radical idea I pulled out of thin air. Plenty of very experienced folks suggest exactly this means to learn a lot quickly, by trying a lot of different things quickly. BEFORE you start mixing.