Interesting gizmo there Jeff.... 

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-u_7DWP8Ng&feature=player_embedded 

do you use this? 

Hi Herb, basically no I don't. But I have heard a few good things about it and the reviews have been favourable. I think your headphones will sound better with this rather than without. You need pretty decent headphones for this to work well I understand. 

I am a speakers man and I am in a good position to be able to use them most of the time and loud if I want to as well. I only use phones for perhaps personal listening late at night or editing or stuff like that. Not accurate mix work. 

There are other systems like the VRM too I believe.  Worth looking into if you had to do a lot of work on cans. Sort of the opposite to ARC! 

That's certainly well worth looking into. I use the Redline Monitor from 112dB and that's supposed to simulate a soundstage in front of you as if you were using monitors. I've heard people say "it's amazing I sometimes forget I have headphones on" but my ears aren't fooled in the slightest, it doesn't sound like the music is in front of me at all. What it does do, however, is reduce the stereo separation and allow you to set levels and panning as if you were doing it on monitors. It's a useful tool, but it doesn't create any illusions. I wonder if this VRM box is the same kind of thing. 

Having just read a few favorable reviews of the VRM box I think it's going to be my next purchase!

don't mix on headphones.

not if you do not have to.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2606011

sharke


Little advice needed here. I'm basically a home hobbyist who pursues a music interest as a relief from the pressures of running a non-musical business. So while I'm committed to developing my production skills and would be over the moon if something came of it, it's not as if I have paying clients to keep happy on a deadline, and there's no hurry. 

Basically my current apartment setup is that I could not mix for long periods on monitors (I can make noise before 10pm, but sound travels in my building to the extent that I would not want to be bothering my neighbors with endless loops of 8 bars that I'm working on). Also, acoustically treating the room is out of the question. So mostly, I've been mixing with a pair of Grado SR80i headphones, which I certainly didn't purchase with a view to mixing, but they've got such a focused, balanced sound that it makes using them a joy. I've kind of gotten familiar with the sound and of their limitations. I also use the Redline Monitor plugin from 112dB which addresses some of the problems with the stereo separation of headphones (it's not perfect, but it really helps). 

I have an old pair of nearfields in storage that someone gave to me years ago, but to be honest I can't even remember what they are. I'm getting to the point now where I could really use some kind of monitor setup to check my mixes on from time to time, even though I'm doing most of my work with the cans on. 

I have a pair of crappy Bose computer speakers that I could use (having heard some mixers say they use speakers like this to really push them into improving their mids etc) but I was wondering if I might benefit from something like a pair of Avantone Mixcubes as well, to check my mixes on at a reasonably low volume every now and again (and perhaps in mono too). I figure this way, I have the highs and the mids covered, and I just have to make allowances for the lows the best I can, as I've been doing up to this point (to be honest I keep my low end as simple and uncluttered as possible anyway). 

Any thoughts? 

Hey Sharke,


As you may have read in that other thread that James linked, I first heard the ATH-M50s over at a friend's "studio" - in fact, he lives just upstairs from here and has to put up w/ the exact same type of environment as I - bay windows all around and no real sound treatment. 


I was surprised when he told me that he did all his mixing in the cans. He also has a pair of older KRK, which he uses to work, but the mixing is all done w/ the cans until we move to Vegas, gets his real monitors shipped from home and sets up a proper studio. But until then, he has to keep up w/ the gigs and keep the mixes coming.


I was blown away when I tried those particular headphones - that's w/o anything like Redline Monitor (which I also use) or VRM. Just the cans. His mixes are actually pretty impressive - layered stuff with lots of dynamics and movement which covers a lot of sonic ground. I've heard his stuff in a commercial studio operated by a common friend last night. Sounded absolutely great.


Personally, I think I'll always prefer to have monitors to work on as well. I don't think anyone would advocate using cans only in ideal circumstances.  But ideal isn't what we're talking about here. :)

Those AT can be found for as little as $99 these days. I'd recommend them w/o hesitation. Then maybe you could invest of a pair of budget near field monitors, like KRKs or little Mackies or Yamahas in the $300-400 range. These obviously aren't the same level of quality as the high end versions, but I think they'd be a big improvement on your current set of Bose. And anyway, it would make no sense to invest thousands of $ on monitors w/o proper room treatment.

But little things can do a difference - finding the best spot to place them, not placing them directly on your desk but on isolation pads, and such... 

I'm considering the VRM box as yet another way to check my mixes, but in any case, if you must work with cans, the most important part of the chain are the actual headphones, IMHO. 

Oh, almost forgot - about the auratones/avantones. I don't think these would really be of any use in your situation, not as a primary set of speakers. Maybe as a third option, after regular nearfield monitors and the best cans you can get.

Plus, if you get VRM eventually, it has a Auratones preset.

horror tones.

Yeah I may well get some ATH-M50's this weekend, along with a VRM box. 

Good monitors are wasted on me, for sure. They'd end up on a shelf in an untreated room, played at whisper quiet volumes. I know there are those who say "never mix with headphones, ever" but I think you really can do a decent job if you adapt to the situation. Ideally I'd like to use monitors because I don't think headphones are particularly good for the ears (although they say a good dose of magnesium citrate every day protects them from noise to a large degree). 

I see a small speaker (s) such as the Avantone the second option and headphones the third option. I prefer one speaker to two as well. The mini monitor(s) could be a great solution for those who still want to work with a speaker but do it at very low volume so it does not disturb anyone.

They are amazing at getting your mixes sounding so good. By taking the extreme lows and highs away you hearing the all important mid range components of everything and once you get all that mid range stuff in balance the rest takes care of itself. One speaker highlights the situation where two parts in the music are sounding too similar. It forces you to modify one of them a bit more, improves separation.

Once you have got the balance of everything sounding great in the small speaker you switch back to your main monitors and this is when you need them. Your main speakers allow you to:

Complete/create the stereo placement of everything.
Observe extreme bottom and high end and allows you to bring those parts of the spectrum back and into balance with the well balanced mids.
Hear very well reverb and other more subtle effects and set their levels accordingly.

The small speaker is an amazing thing. Anyone who says otherwise is mis informed. When you listen to a great ref mix on your main speakers and then you switch to the small speaker the mix changes. You learn how a great mix sounds on the small speaker. You sit in front of it directly. There are no room acoustics involved with using it. It basically allows you to get a fantastic balance of everything in your mix. It allows perfect vocal/music relationship to be set once and for all. This is harder to do on big speakers up loud. The small speaker also is great for checking mono compatibility from stereo sources. It makes your ears open up and listen harder. The idea is to work with the small speaker at quite a low SPL level such as 65 and 70 dB SPL.

Then the fun part. You listen on your main speakers at 100 to 105 dB SPL. (for a little while only!) Then you hear any other problems that may be still around. But after doing the work previously mentioned first this last bit is usually a home run and god it sounds bloody great!