sharke


In addition, does a little low pass filtering help on instruments that mainly sit in the mid range?

Uh...I guess it could, but in my experience and use of it, I like it more for softening harsh high end as well as controlling how much "airy" high end I may want in a mix or sound. When I want to control mids, I simply remove them until the mid-range congestion or too much warmth is gone.
 
If you used low passing for mids, for you to get down low enough for it to literally alter mids, you'd have 0 high end...so in my opinion. I'd not even waste time there. The only reason I said "I guess it could" is because there are some engineers out there that have some pretty trippy techniques to pull things off. I never poo poo any ideas these days because there are so many ways you can do things. But for me personally, no, I'd never use a low pass to control mids.
 
-Danny

Ok. I had thought that maybe some of these synth presets have a lot of unnecessary high end in the same way as they have a lot of unnecessary low end, and that if the important part of the sound sits somewhere in the mid range, then maybe the extreme highs were getting in the way of sounds that are intended to sit up there. But I guess the highs are less likely to sound congested than the lows? 

sharke


But I guess the highs are less likely to sound congested than the lows? 

Based on my experience, that would be correct. Highs will either be piecing and unpleasant, or may introduce hiss, vocal sibilence, hissy sounding crashes and hats, more sizzle than is needed in certain guitar tones or synths etc.
 
However, you don't want to cut those highs too much because there ARE certain frequencies that need some of that air to break through a mix or give a certain sound characteristic. For example, since you are into the electronic style of music, certain synths have a dirty driven sound. This driven sound is often accentuated but certain high end frequencies. Frequencies from 3k to about 8k will brighten them up while frequencies from 9k to about 12k will give you a little more "air" or sizzle to the sound. In certain situations, you WANT that. In others, you need to remove it.
 
With mids, we tend to try and warm things up. When we do this to the extreme, it gives us a boxy sound that may walk on other instruments. A vocal, organ or guitar is going to land in a similar range. Too much mid on these will bring on mid-range congestion or mud in the mids that will cancel out other instruments the same way as having similar bass frequencies pushing instruments will. You don't want things to mask themselves which some will refer to as "mud" when in reality, it's masking of "like instruments". Hope this helps.

-Danny

+1

But how does one not mask? It's very easy to do - especially when layering instruments.

Yes, the timbres are different, but the ranges (pitch and frequencies) are pretty much identical.

Let's say you write (produce) something for harp and pizzicato strings and you get layering at some point. Since they both occupy the same frequency range (and pitch counts, too).

I've said before while every sound should have its own space, you don't want to end up putting everybody everywhere - or use up every bit of spectrum (stage) space because it available.

This means that the bass will invade the kick's space or the harp will invade the Pizzicato strings space. (As you said "masking of like instruments." It seems like the "like instruments" (layering) part is causing the problem.

Clarity is one thing, but too much clarity is a bad as too much invisibility (mud/masking)

Don't thicken until it's unbearable, but don't thin it out til it's hardly noticeable.

I understand what you're saying, but I hope you understand what I'm asking.

And I do spend alot of time, reducing the masking, but as I said with layered instruments, that is inevitable. (ie: Piano/Strings - chords - (pf) always in mid range.)

EQ and Compresson help, but I have a uneasy feeling that your response will be: "It's the arrangement!" (I've heard this critique often, but this thread is asking about busy/complex mixes)

You wouldn't be wrong, but as with sonic space, don't rack up performer count because the stage is huge; yet, don't do the opposite because you are afraid you'll run out of room.

Not everybody has to play on the floor. Some can play on the ceiling - provided safety precautions were taken. And sometimes you have to play on the ceiling if there's inadequate room to begin with. (Don't do this. I just wanted to keep the metaphor a bit longer).

"We only have room for one piano. Heh! Good thing, I do a mean trapeze act!"