JD, my jeep has a good system but it brings out certain high frequencies, making the sibilence pronounced in many singers and certain other sounds harsh and distorted (I'm talking about synth noises, not so much traditional sounds).  After burning a CD I check those.  My home computer speakers (where I'm sitting now) sound good but will fart on certain bass frequencies.  My home bookshelf speakers in the living room sound pretty good for a real-world representation but have their own limitiations.

All these systems have their own compromises that I, as an engineer, have to compensate for on my superior monitors.  They don't show some of the above flaws, which mean they are flawed, only less so.  It means the best system in the world can't mimic the flaws of bad systems - it is up to you to compensate.  The best system (speakers and room) can get rid of the big problems in translating to other system, but can't show the smaller flaws inherent in other systems.  You have to figure that out and compromise the mix for these other systems.

As to your specific question - what to buy, it depends upon how much you spend.  A local studio I frequent is always changing the main montiors - genlecs, Adams, etc. etc.  For the 2nd montiors the best have been the Yama MPS 5s, now replaced by the Polanis.  But for your only speakers, in order to have some bass, the mps 7s would be the way I'd go (my speakers here are old Yamas so I'm biased).  You have a price range from $400 - $1000 for those speakers which will last a long time and you won't have to replace - only augement.  They are all fairly flat and will give a good representation of what is going on and, most importantly, will let you hear when you overcompensate for other systems.

@

    you guys have all given some great info on placement, room treatment, models & types of speakers, and the aspects of bass vs. good frequencies to consider.  whew!   For me, it's a lot to take in but I do realize that the whole studio monitor issue is one we all struggle with.   I should toss in that like many of us, I simply can't run up a high powered amp due to the location of my house and the room my studio is in.  But out of necessity, I am getting away from so much mixing in the cans and trying to cross-check output using several different speakers - heck with the neighbors!  I have a very un-treated room to work in,  affecting both mic recording as well as monitor mix output.  So I'm going to have to look into what I can do to better equip it for acoustics,  and I like the idea behind the ARC room treatment as well....

All this discussion reminded me though, when I think one of you mentioned Alesis.  I just moved to this house last year, but still tucked away in  my closet I actually have an Alesis Studio One close-field monitor system with matching RA-100 100watt/channel amp.  I bought the darn system a few years back to use strictly as a performance output to my Alesis QS7 synth.  I never tried it as a studio monitor system.  Now I'm like.... DUH.  Maybe it's time to place this thing out on my studio desk, dust it off and fire it up as a real monitor - surely that's got to be more accurate than the fancy PC-level subwoofer systems I been using to mix with.  

I'll be hooking that stuff up this weekend and will come back here and report on that result - I'm really looking to do a test where the resulting output MP3 sounds fairly acceptable on any of 3-4 systems including cans, car stereo, and several speaker systems.   In other words, can I trust what I hear as output from the mix, prior to hitting "export all audio...".

One more point to ask you all about though, occurred to me last night:   My DAW interface is the external USB box  Edirol FX4.  It had default buttons on it for playback and for record.  My monitor speakers presently plug into that 1/4" front jack same as where I'd plug in my phones.   I see this as my only option for listening to the accuracy of the mix - correct?   I sure don't want to use any other output jack, such as my notebook computer's headphone output i.e. realtek output,  correct?     you guys are great,  thanks!                 - John    

Aww thanks for all the ARC love guys! :D 

Uttimately, no matter what, you will need to do three things:

1. Get your room treated so that, at least at the mixing position, you can hear what's coming out of the speakers with reasonable accuracy. This involves the position of the listening position, the position of the speakers relative to your head and the walls, and if it's a fairly small room getting a good bit of bass trappage in there. Ultimately something like ARC can only do so much. It can't deal with cancellations and they are as bad as peaks. Reducing the bass energy that comes back to the listening position is utltimately the only way to really get it right.

Read up some on the appropriate use of bass traps, and how to use room measurement software to measure the response of your room at your head position. Then start experimenting and see how flat you can get it. Start with the obvious trap positions and work from there.

2. Learn how your particular setup translates. Lots of great songs have been mixed on NS-10s or Mackie HR824s, which are hardly high endy. The folks who used them learned their characteristics and how they translate. If you are hearing pretty accurately what is coming out of the speakers, then you can listen to commercial tracks that you like and hear how they sound in your room, and then how they sound in the other speaker systems you use to check your mixes, and not how they differ. There's no need for you to get freaked out when your own mixes differ in the same ways, it's not your mix it's just the environment.

3. Learn about calibrated monitoring environments. Our ears change in sensitivity to the balance of mids vs. highs/lows depending on volume. You want to have a standard reference level in the room (SPL) that you can always get back to. You can always cheak it higher and lower, but having that standard level means that you have a way to compare the balance between mixes on a fair playing field. And a way to insure that you listen to commercial CDs at a fair SPL compared to your mixes.

Calibrated monitoring systems also provide a natural means to get the right amount of compression. If a particular mix level on your DAW's meters corresponds to a particular SPL in the room, the only way to make it louder or softer is by adjusting the RMS levels of the mix. So you get a natural feel for how much compression to use. Too little and the low parts are too low. Too much and it starts getting too loud. If you have it set up so that well balanced, appropriately compressed mixes sound just right, then you have a better change of catching when something isn't right.

John.... your interface appears to have line outputs on the back. I would connect the powered monitors to those outputs. Turn the monitors down before you connect them. 

I power my monitors from the back of the Saffire I use. It has 4 pairs of outputs which I use for several things. Monitors, stereo system, headphone amp, and sub. 

I don't use the interface headphone jack for anything. 

Thanks for these good points, Dean!  I especially was not thinking about the need for calibrating the room for a standard reference, and that makes a lot of sense.

One point I liked about Mike's one post up above was the need to get the monitors off the wall and into a good placement.  I will be taking this into account tonight as I'm going to set up my Alesis monitors for some tests, trying varous placements.  I know that my "near field" monitors are meant to be set fairly close up front like a foot and a half away from the listener.   I'd never mount them on a wall.

Aside from some specialized software such as ARC that has been touched on, how does one really test for "bass trappage"?   Is there "room measurement software" that's readily available to test a room?   I'm researching this issue right now as well as the common remedies for the problems.    Again, my sincere thanks to all, for a very informative and eye-opening thread!                   ~ John

Guitarhacker


John.... your interface appears to have line outputs on the back. I would connect the powered monitors to those outputs. Turn the monitors down before you connect them. 

I power my monitors from the back of the Saffire I use. It has 4 pairs of outputs which I use for several things. Monitors, stereo system, headphone amp, and sub. 

I don't use the interface headphone jack for anything. 

Herb:  you're right!  I have at least two RCA OUTs on the back of the Edirol box, so I SHOULD be using those rather than my front-end headphone jack, to go to my monitoring.   UGH!    I was probably correct to be concerned that all along I have not been getting a true output of my mix, the output would be getting colored by all the Edirol's built-in mixing FX in its playback mode, when I listen on that headphone port.   Great!  Thank you for pointing out I have direct outputs that I should be using!     (wow, I can't wait to get home and get to tearing the place apart for testing all this...!)    

JD1813


       I should toss in that like many of us, I simply can't run up a high powered amp due to the location of my house and the room my studio is in.  But out of necessity, I am getting away from so much mixing in the cans and trying to cross-check output using several different speakers - heck with the neighbors!  I have a very un-treated room to work in,  affecting both mic recording as well as               - John    

The high power active  loudspeakers do not mean you need to mix using high volume. The good volume for the basic work is around 85 dB, which means you hardly need to raise your voice to have a conversation.

excellent!   Thanks, Kalle, my neighbors will appreciate that!     By the way I really like your signature quote!              - John

room treatment can sometimes be is nearly always more critical than the monitors.

Fixed.