Sounds good mate. I like the idea of you saying what artistic decisions you would have made when mixing it and not just the technical fixing side of things. A mix can have so many different visions to see it through and other ideas are always great.

Danny Danzi


 
Rain: sorry for the thread hi-jacking...I just figured I'd give the Sonar users an option along the lines of what Bobby is offering but with a bit of a twist of custom lessons based on user material.
 
-Danny

You can "hi-jack" any of my threads, Danny. Your input is always welcome.

Matt
Sounds good mate. I like the idea of you saying what artistic decisions you would have made when mixing it and not just the technical fixing side of things. A mix can have so many different visions to see it through and other ideas are always great.

Yeah, see that's the thing where I feel a lot of these video lessons and books sort of fail. Ok, fail is a huge word...but let's just say I don't think they are as helpful as people may think. The reason being...they most times are not using your gear or your sound capabilities. We can learn from the best engineers in the world and fail miserably if our sounds don't stack up. Sometimes you're stuck with what you're stuck with due to lack of funds etc. So you need to know how to utilize what you have until you can invest in other stuff.

When you see someone tweak your mix using your sounds, your DAW, your plugs on your material, it opens up an entirely new world really. The other side of the coin there is, it's also nice to have both situations. For example, a video I just did for a client had some drums that were not quite up to par. Instead of just saying "well, these were not really good sound choices" I showed them how to best utlilize these drums as far as I could take them which turned out great. Then, I told them and showed them why I felt the drums they chose might not have been the best choice. I replaced a few samples using what I felt was better for the song. So they got the fixed version and an enhanced version. There have been times where I've even played instruments on student material to further drive a point home just so they can literally hear what *I* would call better instrumentation for their song. So it can really help and open up a world of "wow!". :)

Rain
You can "hi-jack" any of my threads, Danny. Your input is always welcome.

Thanks my brother....and feel free to do the same to any of mine as your input is most welcome also. :)

-Danny

 just watched this video(well most of it), it was very good but I'm a little confused about compression now!! On the video Bobby started with the attack very high and lowered it until he heard a change in dynamics then raised it a little - so that the dynamic was preserved. He ended up with quite a high attack setting say 130 milliseconds. I have never used such a slow attack on my guitar parts just wondered what the rest of you used?? he used the slow attack on a clean, acoustic and a distored lead. thanks

godino


 just watched this video(well most of it), it was very good but I'm a little confused about compression now!! On the video Bobby started with the attack very high and lowered it until he heard a change in dynamics then raised it a little - so that the dynamic was preserved. He ended up with quite a high attack setting say 130 milliseconds. I have never used such a slow attack on my guitar parts just wondered what the rest of you used?? he used the slow attack on a clean, acoustic and a distored lead. thanks

Hi Gordo,
 
The thing to keep in mind which is where I find issues watching videos of this stuff is, it's tough to learn certain aspects in this field when the instruments that are being used are not yours or instruments you have recorded. Next, each compressor reacts differently. I haven't had a chance to watch the video, but the particular comp he used may have been a bit more sensitive in the attack area.
 
Another thing to keep in mind, threshold and ratio values will determine how much attack you need to use on an instrument as well as how the actual instrument is reacting to that particular compressor. If you used higher thresholds and ratios, rest assured you'd have to use a higher/slower attack time or the compressor would start to pump. Sometimes we want the initial transient to NOT be softened by the attack time function. However, we may want to use a decent amount of compression via threshold and ratio so that it keeps the sound tight as well. The attack time in a situation like that is going to clamp down on the compressor too fast if you don't relax it and you'll get artifacts, understand? Hope this helps clear up any confusion. :)
 
-Danny

Thanks for replying Danny
 
just for the record I think bobby said the he was using the standard pro tools compressor
 
I can't seem to dial a slow attack time on any compressor and get a decent sound no matter how low i set the threshold
I dont know if this is because of how i pick a note or the fact that  I always record direct into the daw(neighbours).
 
On the resulting waveform(playing single notes)  the peak of the note is probabl only 3 or 4 millisecond from the where the note starts - so unless I dial a fast attack, the peak sneaks through the compressor.
the compressor then works on the rest of the  note, and as I said i end up with a pop of sound at the beginning of the note, which doesn't sound good
 
so I always set the compressor with a relatively fast attack for the guitar
which is what I thought everyone else did until I watched the video 
I think I need to read up a little more(lol)
 
thanks

No problem. :) Let me ask you, what type of guitar sound are you trying to compress? Like what would you best compare it to? Some clean sounds with heavier picks may bring on that pop thing you're talking about.

I notice in your signature that you mention Guitar Rig 5 and Amplitube Fender...are you using any compression inside the sound itself? If so...try backing that down a bit or cutting it out completely if you can just to see if it makes a difference in how the compressor you're using in your DAW works.

Another thing...and this to me is really important. If you ARE using those programs for your guitar sound, you should always compress the clean sound going to disc to condition it just a bit using a decent hardware compressor. I've done quite a lot of work and research for Acme Bar Gig, which is a company that does guitar plugs. In my testing, I have found that whenever I work with guitar sims that it improved my finalt outcome ten-fold by using a little compression going in.

I too would get a pop with my DI sound, but none of that seemed to ever transfer into the sim I used. But looking at my wave form of the DI, it would be spikey and even clip once in a while without the compressor going in. I have also found that hotter levels (at least -6dB) have been helpful as well with any type of guitar sim I use. Some guys use -10 or higher....I get a bit more sound going on with -6dB. But the pop thing only happens to me when I don't compress my DI a little bit. When I say a little bit, I'm talking -8 to -10 threshold, 1:5 to 2:1 ratio just to keep the signal a bit more in control. Just so it keeps me consistently at -6dB.

When I record a real amp or use my guitar tube pre-amp, I compress going in as well. It just keeps the signal consistent. Again though, nothing too strong.

So see if some of that helps. If by chance you are using a dirty sound, do you notice the pop thing more when you play certain chords/notes, or is it there no matter what? I think it's in your clean DI personally. Do you still get the pop using a real amp? If so...now I'm worried. LOL! :)

-Danny 

If you've noticed, the material Bobby is working on really isn't guitar oriented and he also uses fairly "radical" thresholds and ratios (by my own standards anyway - though I can't pretend to be half the mix engineer he is). So his approach seemed a bit counterintuitive to me too.

He usually seem to start w/ 4:1 - which to me is already quite radical but I may be wrong - and often pushes it to 8:1 - which is almost unthinkable in my world. Distorted guitar are already compressed and most of the time, I find myself trying to increase the attack more than anything else, so I start w/ the opposite approach and put the emphasis on the transient. 

So he uses more compression, but backs it off by using long attack and short release.

Danny (if I had one advice, it's listen to this guy man, I've learned more reading his posts in the last year alone than in almost 10 years browsing through specialized resources) also hits it w/ his advice on a bit of compression on the way in (an advice he gave me just last year). It makes all the difference in the world. 

You mean 1.5:1 to 2:1, don't you Danny ;) You said 1:5 which is obviously NOT what we want here hehe

I love working at super low ratios like that. Low threshold and low ratio. Great on vox for smoothing things out. Even as high as 2:1 can start to be quite strong sometimes. I was a bit sad to see the ProChannel only goes as low as a 4:1 when I got it. I'll experiment with it on vox, but I'm scared that kind of serious compression might sound a bit too audible. Fortunately we have other options in X1 for super low ratios.

I guess the use of compression all depends on what you want from the piece. He talks a lot about finding the grooving element of a song and emphasising that. I have not listened to this vid, but I imagine maybe he's thinking about if you had exactly the same sounding guitar part but in one instance you wanted it to hold the groove and rhythm and feel, you would compress one way, and if you wanted to to simple fill in a space and sit very statically, not pumping with the music at all, you would compress in a completely opposite way. The role of the instrument in the song can dictate how we might want to compress it. For a catchy rthym part, you might want to add to the attack and get it pumping and swelling in time with the music, but for a more pad type feel, you might want to cut out all the attack except for just a little sparkle to let it be heard in the mix, and then flatten it out so as to not draw any attention to it. So many options...

Thanks again Danny
 
I'm reasonably happy with my sound, its just that the video threw me a bit -as you mention I
suppose you have to be careful learning from videos/books
 
Currently I am using a strat with a very clean sound, infact its one of the old squier originals strat copies from 82/83
which I always find a nice guitar to play
 
I've already dusted down my old behringer hardware compressor to add a little compression before DI'ing
I'll do a bit of testing and see what difference it makes 
I take it I dial a fast attack time?
 
Rain - Yes you are right danny's posts are also informative and well worth reading(perhaps cakewalk should pay him a retainer LOL!)