Thanks, as always, for sharing your knowledge Danny.

I'll add my 1 cent on this

If you can plug your guitar into a nice preamp prior to going to the amp sim, it can make a big difference.  I'm using the UA LA-610 MKII.  It takes some of the piercing qualities out of the amp sim.  The compressor on it is wonderful and can also help shape the sound before going in.

Hi Danny,
 I thought that initial legato riff you played at the beginning really showed off your chops as a player. That extra space that allows us to hear your fingers working on the strings makes it sound so lively and you do it so well. The space in between the notes is where the music is happening and your sense of touch really adds to the pulse of the music... it was a very short passage... but it was groovy.
 
 I'd love to hear your playing direct through something nice like a Chandler Limited TG2 preamp. That's the one I'd choose out of the stuff I've got sitting here. I wouldn't use much lo-cut either. The TG2 seems to fatten up the lows and I think that would highlight how much control you play with.

 I think it would sound awesome to hear you playing naked like that more often.


 all the best,
mike




 edit spelling

Starise


 Thanks Danny and Rain for your detailed descriptions here. Maybe the reason that I haven't noticed an extreme difference is because I am using a fireastudio tube interface. If you are not familiar with it, it has a limiter and a tube front end. The adjustable limiter must be pushing the signal pretty well. I am  using a Variax and the entire concept of that guitar is different than the input of the typical guitar. It tends to run a little hotter and cleaner than a non active pickup would. One isn't necessarily better than the other just a different animal.The output seems to be closer to what an active pickup would be.

 Thanks for posting your example Danny.

 This is what I like about this forum. People like Danny post examples to show you what is actually happening.

 I am kind of on the fence regarding amp sims. I have  computer sims,outboards boxes and so on and I think a sim can be made to sound just as good as a real amp if set up correctly,but I haven't been half as far around the block as some others who have used the other stuff either.. If adding a little compression improves it great! And Danny is using a fairly inexpensive compressor.You might even be able to get away with the compressor built into some of the mixers like Yamaha. Either way it won't cost a lot to get one.

You're quite welcome Starise. I try to always show examples of something since I do so much typing. LOL! No sense being a wind-bag if I don't practice and show what I preach. LOL! :)
 
Yeah you don't really need anything special going on. I've been testing different things all weekend between job renders. Between the new ARC 2, the plug sim testing and me having to build another little live guitar rig for myself as a back-up, it's been a fun filled weekend of testing. LOL!
 
Here's what I know now though. As I mentioned, I wanted to really try and see if I could get similar results using better plugs before the sim. Unfortunately the only one that seemed to work along the lines of what I wanted was the UAD LA3A. That said, it still didn't give me what I was capable of getting using something destructively within the signal. The LA3A added some noise to the signal which is not what we want. You can get away with just about anything that conditions or slightly boosts the signal as long as it is on the signal before it hits your hard drive.
 
I tried everything I had in my UAD arsenal as well as some other plugs. Nothing touched the Behringer comp, my Drawmer, my Manley or the little stomp boxes and rack effects I had around here. Even a little pedal will work if you set the drive all the way to off and just boost the output on the pedal. If there is no noise you can try boosting the drive on the pedal a little bit. The Boss Compressor Sustainer, Boss Over-drive or the Tube Screamer work wonders in this manner along with a little outboard compression to keep things tight. Or you can get away with just the pedals or just the compressor. It all depends how you want to color or condition the signal. Just remember, we don't want to add any noise to the sim if possible. All the things I have tried that worked either added 0 audible noise or very little audible noise.
 
I know this will sound biased because I work for the company, but honest it's true. The only amp sim I was able to play through that didn't really need a boost of any kind was the Acme Bar Gig "Shred" or "Head Case" plugs. The reason being, we have what is called an "input gain" knob within our plugs. It compensates for whatever pups you are using and is like a buffer that pushes the signal before it hits our plug. It's not quite the same as a buffered amp input but it's the closest thing I've heard yet to where you can "feel" the amp sim like you would an amp. A mild compressor here and you're golden...but even without it, it's 100% better than any other amp sim I have ever tried....and we have them all due to comparisson and testing purposes.
 
So just try a little something on your signal before it hits the sim. It will make a world of difference. Whether it be a hardware comp, a stomp box, some rack effect compressor or boost type effect...or even an eq with the output turned up so it boosts (remember doing that years ago for lead solos? Jump on the eq pedal for a boost! Hahaha!) and you'll notice the "feel" come back into the sim as well as the sustain. From there if you turn up a bit, it should even feed back. :)
 
-Danny

Since my budget...HAH!!..is minimal around here I've taken to using the Acme Bargig ampsims a lot more lately...and I have seen a bit of a difference with how this operates as well. 

By the way...who am I going to blame for buying this?

mike_mccue


Hi Danny,
I thought that initial legato riff you played at the beginning really showed off your chops as a player. That extra space that allows us to hear your fingers working on the strings makes it sound so lively and you do it so well. The space in between the notes is where the music is happening and your sense of touch really adds to the pulse of the music... it was a very short passage... but it was groovy.

I'd love to hear your playing direct through something nice like a Chandler Limited TG2 preamp. That's the one I'd choose out of the stuff I've got sitting here. I wouldn't use much lo-cut either. The TG2 seems to fatten up the lows and I think that would highlight how much control you play with.

I think it would sound awesome to hear you playing naked like that more often.


all the best,
mike




edit spelling

Thank you Mike, that's very kind of you. Yeah for a nice, clean DI tone, I prefer the one without the compressor on it believe it or not. Though I do like to compress my DI tones a little, I'd not use anywhere near the amount you heard on the example I played with that little compressor turned on. But for use with over-drive in a sim, it's nice when we have a bit more sustain in place of drive in those sim plugs. They kill us with distortion capabilities, but the sustain is never there...so that's why I've been talking about the whole compression before the sim thing. I can actually use less distortion in a sim when I drive a comp or a little stomp box before the signal hits the disc.
 
I have a Chandler Tube driver around here somewhere....I know it's not the same as the TG2. I've heard good things about the TG2 from others and one of my friends swears by it. I've never been a fan of the tones he gets from it though because he's one of those cats that uses a bit too much 200 Hz in his tone...you know...that super smooth type thing. It's cool, but sounds a bit too congested and sort of flat to me. I know that pre can do more than that....but he's the only one I know that has one and he loves it.
 
I actually do quite a bit of low gain or "soft clipped" stuff for clients when I play on their stuff. I don't mind that sound at all and do enjoy the results. When I try it on my stuff though....well, it just doesn't seem powerful enough for what I do. I like a more processed tone. Not because it hides anything or is easier to play with, it's just a personal preference of mine. But I'd have no problems using a more naked tone for something if it called for it.
 
This is still far away from what you're talking about as far as naked goes, but I was in a little competition a few months ago on a site when they had a Lenny Kravitz "Are you Gonna Go My Way" contest. I was sort of looking for an older sound on this...sort of 60's in timbre but modern in the actual tone. So what I did was, I used a little bit of my guitar pre-amp and pumped up a little drive using my Drawmer tube comp to saturate the tone. You'll hear the saturation kick in on certain notes/chords where it just grabs that vintage "old" break-up. Still not as naked as what would like to hear me do...but this didn't have any processing on it at all compared to how I normally run my tone. This was just my guitar pre-amp using light drive and the Dramwer took care of the rest.
 
I'm playing both rhythm guitars and the lead. No clue where the backing came from...it was supplied from the site. Sounds like it may have come off of Guitar Hero or something...but it was pretty cool. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/Are%20you%20Gonna%20-%20Danny%20Danzi.mp3
 
The rhythm tones were speaker sim out of my guitar pre into my console because I wanted them a bit more up front sounding. The lead solo was my Greenback cab mic'd with a 57 and a 421 I believe...or maybe a Royer. I know the 57 was there for sure as I always use at least one of those to get a little sparkle. I believe this may have been the 421 though. But I did the same thing here. A little guitar pre-amp gain and then the saturation from the Drawmer tube comp. I know...still too driven for what you want to hear...lol...but this is actually a far cry away from my usual tone...even though no matter what tone I use, I'm stuck sounding like me....it's both a blessing and a curse. LOL!
 
Funny story real quick. I have back up rigs that I bring with me on my gigs. My main back up rig is having problems right now. My tube pre-amp is shutting off and on all by itself. So I have another guitar pre that I used to use years ago. I love it but it doesn't have a 12AX7 front end and I really prefer that. But this other thing was all I had until I can get my tube pre fixed. I set it up and started playing around with it. I recorded something with it and had old takes using the tube pre already in the project.
 
One of my interns stopped over yesterday and was hanging out with me and he says "dude, I can't tell the difference between that and the other pre. You still sound like you!" In this situation, that's a good thing...lol...but in other situations where I really want to change things up and try to accommodate for a particular situation, sounding like "me" isn't a good thing at all. LOL!
 
-Danny

I own a fender supersonic, also I own amplitube.   I have observed that the amp sim of the supersonic in no way, shape or form sounds like the real amp on any setting I could adjust.