bandontherun19
I know that the guru's here? The mix-masters have knowledge, templates, practiced techniques? And I really look up to a lot of people here.
Then there are others who are really pretty good?
Then there are most people?
And then? There's me...
My goal is to rise to the level of "pretty good." But the time involved? The time is like a job? I put one up recently, it was "OK" I tweaked it quite a bit, it's better, but it's still OK.
I've taken some advice from some people I respect, and had to go back in and re-do some things... And listen, and redo some things, and listen, etc... It's taken a week, and I'm probably 1/2 way there? My problem previously (and still) is that I'm an artist 1st. I record, I track, and when I'm done? I do a quick mix, and try to improve it based on feedback. But what I want to do is put out a 1st mix where people listen and say, "hey that's pretty good!" I have a lot of the performance aspect down. I fight with the mix... But it seems like, if you slow down? If you listen to each track, and listen objectivly, and see what needs an envelop, what needs EQ, and what needs to be "re-recorded?"
I think this is what the people who are really good at it do. Like sniffing a carton of milk to see if it's off? They just have really well trained noses/ears. You can hide a bunch of "crap" in the mix, with compressors, and limiters, etc... But another thing that the people who do this "really well" do, is they separate the wheat from the chaff.. On the way in, before the mixing/mastering.
I still don't understand it "well." But I am trying hard... My next remix, I want a few folks in particular to stand up and take notice. But it takes "hours", "days", "weeks..." I think people who do it quickly are especially gifted.
I've been seeing you make a mention of this for quite some time now in bits and pieces in various threads. It's obvious that it must be really bothering you. Can I be honest with you? I mean brutally honest? This won't make me any friends on here, but to be honest, I'm not in the friend business when it comes to this forum any more. So you can take this for what it's worth. But if you really want to learn and be done with this once and for all, here's what I'd do.
Before I go there, I've heard your mixes and they aren't bad at all. Decent quality for a hobbyist and you do what you do very well. If that sort of quality isn't enough for you and you want to take things truly to the next level, here are my suggestions. (and where this may get ugly) The first 2 sentences in
#1 are all that applies to you. The rest of that is for those that will forever remain clueless and pollute these forums. You can move onto the bold, black
2.
1. Stop listening to people on this forum that talk a good game that don't post songs with the quality that you want yourself. The more you listen to friends that are supposedly "in the know" the more you sit there and spin your wheels.
The rest of this is not directed at anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits, wear it with pride, report me, ignore me, come get me or do whatever makes you happy.
I've watched several arm-chair know-it-alls post bogus crap on these forums in hopes of either sounding like they knew what they were talking about, or they were sincerely trying to help while not realizing they were/are hurting people that may be really trying to learn. Then there are a few on here that go all out like they are something special...then you listen to their material and their credibility disappears. Need I say more?
For those that think they are teachers on here all of a sudden that fit the above bill:
Rule of thumb 1: If you don't know how to teach and aren't getting good results yourself, don't try and teach another person. You're killing them and this forum with fallacy and are misleading people that do not yet know how this stuff really works. Mods should ban you before they ban someone for mentioning they use "the competition" or because of their discrepancies due to some of the apparent flaws in Cakewalk software.
Rule of thumb 2: If you can't go into detail to tell someone how, when, or why to fix something while having the right recipe that REALLY works, have the ability to deliver the right description while in the right frame of mind like a normal human being with a pulse and a sense of compassion, do us all a favor and don't post anything negative. Actually, don't post anything at all...especially if someone is really crying out and trying to learn. All you'll do is further confuse them with your infinite...ummm...whatever you want to call it but make no mistake, it is NOT wisdom. Mods should ban you for drama and for being an attention prostitute that doesn't care for anyone but themselves packing this forum with garbage...post after post.
Sharing links on the subject further confuses people. If you can't tell it in your own words in a language that an unexperiencied person can understand, don't bother wasting the space. If you do this and then try to be intimidating on top of it, how about just don't? I have a degree in hearing. The scope of my hearing test says "you suck and quite well I might add...so well in fact, you are nearly at the engulf stage".
I can explain something in one long post that *most* people will understand way better than your stupid, boring, cop of another persons findings that sound spoken in a language other than English. In school that was known as "Cribbing". Don't let the net fool you, you're still not a good engineer no matter how good your search engine leads you to believe.
The day your friends start telling the truth is the day they really become your friends. We got enough sugar coating and horsesh!t around here to create our own Candy Land board game. There's nothing wrong with being nice, but for heaven sakes, when someone delivers something that sounds bad and is a Richard Cranium on top of it, don't feed their ego because they are your friend or you feel sorry for them. Just think, if everyone were more honest, we'd not have the creature known as "he whos name we shall not mention". You guys built him, now the rest of us are stuck with him. Thanks.
(Ok, rant over. I actually feel better now. Not that it will do a thing or solve anything, but it sure does feel good to say it and read it.) 2. If you want to learn this stuff bandontherun, it's best to have someone literally teach you. You can sit here listening to 10 different people telling you what's wrong with your mix. That does nothing for you if you yourself do not know what to listen for on your own. It can actually confuse you because you are getting too many people telling you things. That said, you CAN be taught. I had to be taught certain things and I'm not ashamed to admit that.
You mention:
"I think this is what the people who are really good at it do. Like sniffing a carton of milk to see if it's off? They just have really well trained noses/ears." That's exactly right! And guess what? You don't even have to be really good. I know guys that can't mix to save their lives, yet for some odd reason, they can tell me things about my own stuff that need work and they are spot on. Kinda like a music teacher that may not know how to really play an instrument too well that may have the teaching/theory part down. But again, you have to know when to take this stuff as "gospel" and when to take it as a load of crap or for the sake of a voice.
In my realm, life has taught me to listen to those who can put up as opposed to those who put up nothing and should shut up. Do you chance having a house built by the guy that has never shown you a beautiful house he's built himself or he may have built a fair/below average house yet talks a great ball game? Or do you trust the guy that built the mansion down the street that makes you drool every time you see it that also talks a good ball game and can back it up? Ok, so you're not into mansions, the dude with the "fair" build may be your man then. Whatever works. I prefer the polished mansion. It's like singing, you learn the right way to sing first, then you can degrade your voice with rasp or strain if/when you need to. Build the mix the right way the best that you can, then go for a dirty analog sound or something if you want down the road.
When someone has a good set of trained ears as well as the right listening environment to make the right calls, there is no thinking/guess work of any kind. You don't listen to something and say "hmm, I wonder what could be wrong with this mix? Let me open up 9 different scopes and check it out." Mixes also take way less time. Anything over 2 days and you got a problem. 2 days is too much for me.
When you know what to listen for, it leaps out at you. A mix tells a trained set of ears what is wrong with it on its own, the flaws show themselves and they are easily heard. You have to learn how and what to listen for first and foremost. When you accomplish this, it's like smelling that carton of milk. You usually don't have to sniff twice because you know on the first sniff that there is a problem or there isn't.
However.....have you ever had an iffy carton of milk? One you weren't sure of, so you may have smelled it 5 or more times or maybe had to taste it? LOL! We sometimes DO have these types of issues in the audio field. Sometimes what you think you hear may not be the problem. So you either have to "taste it" and experiment a bit with an eq, or check it out with an analyzer.
3. If you're so tight you squeak money-wise, can't put in the time due to family or job etc, make excuses that have excuses, nothing is ever going to change. I can't tell you how many dudes have come begging me to help them with recording lessons only to cry about my prices, say they can't put in the time, this and that got in the way or they didn't have the money yet buy every plugin that comes out.
Guess what...I don't want people like that. If I needed the money I wouldn't want people like that. I want people that want to learn that will do some work too. Not people that expect me to do everything for them to where I become their tech support. I'm not in the tech support field for cryin' out loud.
Things in life cost money, they can take time and sometimes they need to be lived and experienced. If you have neither the time, the money nor the patience, you'll have to make due with what you have and just suck it up while understanding that you're not going to grow as fast. I can mix the same song 300 times. If I don't know what I'm doing, one of those times I may get lucky...but I could be doing this for 2 years before the right mix luckily comes from it.
Tip of the day: Don't ever fall into the trap like "those that shall remain nameless and clueless". If you ever don't know something, say you don't know. The people that act like they know everything would be way cooler and welcomed with open arms if they just fessed up that they didn't really know much at all. Instead, we are left with...well, you know the deal there. 4. There is no science in the part of this field where YOU need work in my opinion. Try not to listen to those parts until you get an idea on how to make things work first and get involved with the science part later on if you wish. I assure you, knowing what to listen for goes further than any scientific offering in this field. Ask a real producer/engineer to listen to a mix on any set of monitors and he'll be able to instruct you on what HE would do. There's no science involved other than "The science of knowing what the hell you're talking about". The problem is explaining the things your ears hear in a language that you/another person can understand which could be considered "science" but other than that, stay away from it for now. Trust me. Then again, if one of the science guys we all love and respect happens to come on here and offer advice on this, it's always best to listen and give them the benefit of the doubt if it makes sense to you.
5. I notice you have massive respect for Yoyo. Why not try to make it worth his while and have him take you under his wing? If that's the quality you want, that's the man to talk to in depth. Any time you get someone you truly respect to comment on your stuff, take it seriously and try your best to do what they tell you. You won't get what they get if you don't listen. Then again, you need to be able to apply what they tell you. If you can't do this, the information provided will not help. That said, the information provided is only as good as the messenger that delivered it. Was he/she in depth? Did they explain things right, or were you lost? That's like saying "fix my car" without telling the mechanic what's wrong with it.
6. Most importantly, if you do not like the quality of material and/or information I have shared during my entire time on this forum, please accept my apology, totally ignore this post and disregard it. Do the same with any other post you read on this forum from anyone else that doesn't lead or show by example. The sooner you stop listening to those that are considered "realistically clueless", the sooner you just may get this stuff down. Good luck.
-Danny