I heard a few times over the years where people would tell me "dude, you remind me of Yep in some of your posts!" This of course made me say "who is Yep?" When I checked him out and read his posts, I saw him as a knowledgable dude that had to really be into this stuff or studied hard to gain that knowledge. I respect the guy and think it's a shame he's faded somewhat.

That said, there will always be things that get said that we may not agree with. There are quite a few posters on this forum that I think have no business trying to teach others about audio. I can appreciate the effort but let's face it, some just can't pull the wool over our eyes. However, thay HAVE shared other priceless pieces of information that show they know a little about something. You take the stuff that applies to you and ignore the other stuff. When Yep sort of made me disagree with some of the things he said, I stopped reading and went to another part of his post. Some things I thought were brilliant. Other things...just not for me.

I take the same stance as Yoyo on this.

"And there are tons of know-it-alls on the X1 forum who seem to know everything about recording, yet their own work (if they ever bother to post it) is shockingly amateurish. And I mean I was completely shocked in a few cases. Being not much more than an advanced hobbyist myself (I make a couple bucks here and there), I still would never spout off so much, pick fights over how right I am, and then produce such slapdash crap. It is embarrassing."

This is so true, it actually hurts. That said, there are certain people that have a way of explaining themselves to where I can buy into it. For example, not to single out Drewfx, but I've never heard a single thing he's ever done. However, I would not ignore his advice on anything because he's a good communicator, an intelligent man and you can just tell he knows what he's talking about. His posts are always good, he's never claimed to be a god, he's never pulled an attitude like he knows everything, and he only comments on stuff he truly knows something about.

If I were sharing info in a thread and he came into and said "hey Danny, have you ever tried this that and this for that effect?" If I never heard of it, you better believe I would try it. If a few other guys said the same thing, I'd not give it a second thought unless they were people I held in high regard or those who have shown us examples of their work.

That part, I think Philip has spot on. It's a bit hard to really read novels from people that have never proved themselves in this field. Seriously, that's not meant to sound harsh on anyone, it's just human nature. That doesn't mean a person not sharing their material is less credible...it just means that for some of us, it just may not hold as much weight because they are just talking by example, not leading by SHOWING actual examples. I think we all need that in this field because as I have said a million times before, most of the time you are a better engineer than you know...you just need to be taught how to listen to some things or be taught how to achieve certain things using YOUR gear and YOUR software.

At the end of the day, I've always took what I could from someone trying to help and passed on the things that either didn't make sense, I tried them and they failed, or the subject matter wasn't something that interested me. That's really how you have to go about this stuff. Pick and choose accordingly, try the stuff...if it works, it's credible, if it doesn't, maybe that technique is not for you or maybe the person teaching isn't doing such a good job. It certainly does help if there are actual examples to go along with the text though..make no mistake there.

As for critiquing songs, that's a really hard thing to do for me anymore. I have found my honesty is often times not accepted by the majority, so I only show up in instances where I feel the song poster can handle what I have to say. If I can't be honest and be me, I simply "can't be".

-Danny

As for critiquing songs, that's a really hard thing to do for me anymore. I have found my honesty is often times not accepted by the majority, so I only show up in instances where I feel the song poster can handle what I have to say. If I can't be honest and be me, I simply "can't be".

I usually post at work (which I shouldn't be doing, but that's another story) and if I'm at home I'll be doing my own music so very rarely venture over there. But one thing bugs me a little - when I see someone post a song and everyone says "wow that was great" "loved it" "amazing" etc. Though it's nice for the poster to read these comments, I see the main point of posting songs there is to get feedback on how to improve. I really don't see the point in saying anything if you have not got some constructive criticism to go with it. I don't think I've ever posted without giving some feedback on what I thought didn't sound right to my ears. Not to say that what I hear is right or not, but every listener has worth in comment, I think.


I get so much more from people who rip my songs to shreds and tell me what's wrong. But some people aren't willing to take the criticism and improve. So be it! Their loss! I embrace it :)

I've learned not to comment on people's song. Sometimes they don't take it well. If I don't like a song I move on. If I like a song  I may comment. But I haven't done that in long time.

You guys that never critique me nor post songs ... I have little love and respect for, just like Yep.  To each his own I guess

I've only posted a couple of songs in the songs forum and only occasionally critique others. That's for a very good reason and one I mentioned in the first song I posted. I personally don't feel qualified to critique or offer advice.

When it comes to audio techniques I feel I don't know enough about what I'm doing myself to start advising others. I know that, can recognise that so try not to input into threads I know nothing/little about. That'd make me as bad as the posters that roll up on the X1 forum declare this or that crap because most of the time they don't know how to use it. I think the ability to use a program and one's ability at producing the subject matter of that program aren't necessarily interlinked. I know plenty of kids can leave me dead on a motogp computer game but give me a real racetrack and motorbike........

OTOH I do know plenty about how to use Sonar and X1 and so spend most of my time trying to help others get the best out of the program. If that makes me a bad person so be it. If we were all great at the same things it'd make this collection of forums a pretty poor place to visit.

I do get what you are saying about qualified to comment but again just because someone doesn't post in the songs forum it doesn't make them unqualified, any more than posting stuff makes someone qualified. IMHO there's some great posters on the songs forum - Danny Danzi, JamesYoYo, TMidi, Bob Oister are amongst a few that spring to mind. I wish I could produce stuff like that. I have heard a couple of things JohnT has done (by accident elsewhere IIRC) and his productions are really good as well, but AFAIK rarely if ever posts in the song forum. It's not compulsory is it?

As it's been mentioned there are a couple of posters that post with the greatest authority on everything yet whatever I've heard from them is even worse than my stuff. At least I know where I am in the audio world pecking order and it's in a completely different position to the "how to use X1" pecking order position.

Isn't that the point of these forums though? Bring your knowledge to the table to share, and leave what you do know behind for others to learn from? That's what I try to do as do many others, just it's not always the same knowledge being brought in or taken away.

BTW a big thanks to all those people that do share their audio production knowledge and help me get better, it is working even if it doesn't always sound like it.

I personally don't feel qualified to critique or offer advice.

When it comes to audio techniques I feel I don't know enough about what I'm doing myself to start advising others. I know that, can recognise that so try not to input into threads I know nothing/little about.

 
I have much the same feelings FBB.  I consider myself more of a songwriter that is just trying to learn my way around the Engineering side of things.  I visit the forum daily, absorb all of the great information that you all discuss, then when time allows, go back and try to apply the things I am learning.  I try to never take offense to any crit that I am given, because I am really trying to learn this stuff. 
 
I do find it interesting that a lot of folks at song forums don't post unless they have something corrective to say about the Engineering side of things.  From a songwriters perspective, some times it is just nice to hear that some one likes the song, or what parts in particular they like or don't like.  I think it overall helps a songwriter to know what and what is not clicking with other people.

MakeShift

I personally don't feel qualified to critique or offer advice.

When it comes to audio techniques I feel I don't know enough about what I'm doing myself to start advising others. I know that, can recognise that so try not to input into threads I know nothing/little about.

 
I have much the same feelings FBB.  I consider myself more of a songwriter that is just trying to learn my way around the Engineering side of things.  I visit the forum daily, absorb all of the great information that you all discuss, then when time allows, go back and try to apply the things I am learning.  I try to never take offense to any crit that I am given, because I am really trying to learn this stuff. 
 
I do find it interesting that a lot of folks at song forums don't post unless they have something corrective to say about the Engineering side of things.  From a songwriters perspective, some times it is just nice to hear that some one likes the song, or what parts in particular they like or don't like.  I think it overall helps a songwriter to know what and what is not clicking with other people.

Same here. I used to post a lot in the songs forum to comment on what I liked in a song but after some of the resident experts here implied that was a worthless thing to do, and if people couldn't offer "real" feedback, then they should keep their comments to themselves. Boy, I sure felt self-conscious after that. And after reading some of the comments about people chiming in when they don't know what they're talking about, now I feel self conscious about offering any advice at all. I think I'll just go back to lurking and let these experts handle it. The forum seemed to be doing just fine before I started posting here. I guess all this arguing and infighting has worn me down. Time to take a break and concentrate my energy somewhere else.

I feel everyone is qualified to critique. It just kinda depends on the level of detail your are qualified to give.

If anyone listens to a song and says "I think it just sounds too busy, there is too much going on" or "I really struggled to hear the vocals. The guitars just drowned it all out" has plenty of credit to do so. These are all very important things that ANY untrained listener may hear. We get so involved with out music that it's hard to step back and listen clearly. I regularly get friends with ZERO audio technical experience and listen and see what they think. "I like that guitar part, it sounds cool" or "that bit really bugs me". These are great.

It's the technical advice that not everyone is so qualified to give. The technical advice that may be needed to fix the above issues. The untrained person says "that sounds wrong", and the trained person says "this is why it sounds wrong and this is what you can do to fix it". If we don't even realise there is a problem in the first place, we can't try and fix it. There is no guarantee that the trained guy is going to hear that same issue you heard (or even the mix) and provide the solution. Sometimes the best we are going to get is "the guitar just doesn't work for some reason." That's much better in my opinion than ignorance of any issue at all. We can then delve into the issue further and try and fix it through experimentation or learning from others.

Chappel

MakeShift

I personally don't feel qualified to critique or offer advice.

When it comes to audio techniques I feel I don't know enough about what I'm doing myself to start advising others. I know that, can recognise that so try not to input into threads I know nothing/little about.

I have much the same feelings FBB.  I consider myself more of a songwriter that is just trying to learn my way around the Engineering side of things.  I visit the forum daily, absorb all of the great information that you all discuss, then when time allows, go back and try to apply the things I am learning.  I try to never take offense to any crit that I am given, because I am really trying to learn this stuff. 

I do find it interesting that a lot of folks at song forums don't post unless they have something corrective to say about the Engineering side of things.  From a songwriters perspective, some times it is just nice to hear that some one likes the song, or what parts in particular they like or don't like.  I think it overall helps a songwriter to know what and what is not clicking with other people.

Same here. I used to post a lot in the songs forum to comment on what I liked in a song but after some of the resident experts here implied that was a worthless thing to do, and if people couldn't offer "real" feedback, then they should keep their comments to themselves. Boy, I sure felt self-conscious after that. And after reading some of the comments about people chiming in when they don't know what they're talking about, now I feel self conscious about offering any advice at all. I think I'll just go back to lurking and let these experts handle it. The forum seemed to be doing just fine before I started posting here. I guess all this arguing and infighting has worn me down. Time to take a break and concentrate my energy somewhere else.

I've always found your contributions to be well intended, well structured, informative and usually spot on!
These forums would, in my opinion, be considerably less enriched without your contributions.


Stick to your principles man! Don't let a couple of cyber bullies have their way. 


Besides, don't we all have a duty to help people out? Isn't this really the point of human existence?

I am happy to receive advice from anywhere and judge its value for myself.  Everyone is an expert at something and ought not to be discouraged from sharing useful insights.  In any field, music included, the most accomplished individuals are not necessarily the best teachers.

I feel everyone is qualified to critique. It just kinda depends on the level of detail your are qualified to give.

That's very true. I was thinking more along the lines of technical advice rather than an opinion on a song.

There's also the time issue. I spend more time on these forums than is healthy anyway and I'd rather be helping out on the X1 forum than anywhere else. I take plenty from these forums in places that I perhaps don't comment in as much, such as this forum for example.

The X1 forum is where I give back a little where I can, hence the videos in my sig. I find that side of it i.e. how to do something in the software very easy. The part I struggle with is knowing when to apply it or what I need to do to put something right. Or sometimes even hearing what is wrong in isolation in the first place.

My last song I posted in the song forum was technically abysmal (and that's being generous) I'd got so involved in it that I could no longer hear how bad it was. It wasn't until I got some great advice on the song forum that I went back fixed it and when I A/B'd the mixes I could then hear how she-ite the first effort was. I thought people on the Song forum were very polite about the way they told me that. My point is I couldn't hear what was wrong until I listened to a 'good' better version. That's why I don't feel qualified to comment on the technical aspects of mixing and such like.

I like to think that my being aware of that and keeping quite is more helpful than giving crap advice.