I just finished one I worked on for more than two months. "Time..." I can do one in two days? But sometimes they take two months. I can't say one is better (faster or slower?) It seems that each project has its own timeline.

bandontherun19


I know that the guru's here? The mix-masters have knowledge, templates, practiced techniques? And I really look up to a lot of people here.
 
Then there are others who are really pretty good?
 
Then there are most people?
 
And then? There's me...
 
My goal is to rise to the level of "pretty good." But the time involved? The time is like a job? I put one up recently, it was "OK" I tweaked it quite a bit, it's better, but it's still OK.
 
I've taken some advice from some people I respect, and had to go back in and re-do some things... And listen, and redo some things, and listen, etc... It's taken a week, and I'm probably 1/2 way there? My problem previously (and still) is that I'm an artist 1st. I record, I track, and when I'm done? I do a quick mix, and try to improve it based on feedback. But what I want to do is put out a 1st mix where people listen and say, "hey that's pretty good!" I have a lot of the performance aspect down. I fight with the mix... But it seems like, if you slow down? If you listen to each track, and listen objectivly, and see what needs an envelop, what needs EQ, and what needs to be "re-recorded?"
 
I think this is what the people who are really good at it do. Like sniffing a carton of milk to see if it's off? They just have really well trained noses/ears. You can hide a bunch of "crap" in the mix, with compressors, and limiters, etc... But another thing that the people who do this "really well" do, is they separate the wheat from the chaff.. On the way in, before the mixing/mastering.
 
I still don't understand it "well." But I am trying hard... My next remix, I want a few folks in particular to stand up and take notice. But it takes "hours", "days", "weeks..." I think people who do it quickly are especially gifted.

i haven't read everything in this thread, just the last page. looks like it got interesting.  i'll save my comments on the songs forum for a different post, with the appropriate asbestos applied.


i started recording my own music over 12 years ago, and sequencing in the mid 90's, and this is what i've found: 

you have limited time in your life, and varying degrees of talent in the areas related to recording music. spend your time on what you love to do. if you are an artist first, (and i found i am as well), then spend your time being creative, writing music, playing your instrument, singing, whatever. about 3 years ago, i stopped recording my songs and i started to actually play them, and experience them. i've been doing way more live playing (not my own songs, unfortunately) and i've gotten way better as a musician as a result.

the other thing i've learned is that professional mixes sound amazing for two basic reasons: the first is that the people who mix and master them are usually talented and do it all day, every day, and so they can make paris hilton sound like diana ross in the same amount of time it takes us mortals to find a reverb that we're happy with. the second reason is that they have access to great sounding rooms and (almost always) great musicians, so instead of spending weeks trying to EQ/compress/gate/excite/expand/delay/reverb/etc. nasty room sound out of every live track, they are spending hours or days playing with stuff that already sounds good and getting it to sound better.

so here's what i would say: if you don't want to be a mix engineer, don't spend more than 5-10% of your "music creation time" mixing. you can get some really good mix advice here, and that is a great thing. but don't let yourself get sucked into the vortex of endless tweaking and re-posting if what you really want to do is write and perform music. i learned this the hard way. 

so i read the rest of the thread, took awhile... i'll make a couple comments:

yep/put up or shut up

i will respectfully disagree on the point some have made (and some, more than others) about the need for someone's work to qualify them to comment or post with authority, for these reasons:

1. a long time ago, when i used to comment in the songs forum, i know for a fact that my observations were helpful to some. in fact there was one person who specifically asked me to critique their song, even though their mixes were better than mine ever got. this bit of anecdotal evidence brings me to my next point.

2. mixing your own stuff can often lead to disaster. most people here mix their own music. for some, the endless tweaking and knob fiddling can take a decent mix and turn it into mush, because they are trying to get every bit of their precious into the forefront. hence the trainwreck of EQ/FX/compression choices when a more objective person could dispassionately find one good thing about each track and make it shine, in about 2 hours time. it is very easy to critique something that isn't yours.

3. "print" quality has a lot to do with mix quality. some of us have better rooms than others to record in, and so a less experienced/talented/knowledgeable person can achieve pretty good results in a great sounding room in far less time than a pro stuck with "bedroom-reverb" on every single take.

4. some people are really good at teaching vs. doing, and some can do both but aren't allowed to share because of copyright. i've learned a lot of great theory from yep's posts, still have some of them saved in a word file. i vaguely remember his response to one request for something he'd worked on was "listen to the radio, you might hear it". now this is the internet, so that could have been complete BS. but i never got the BS feeling from yep.

so to sum up, kind of, my theory is this:

yep is not god, but he knows what he's talking about and is worth reading/learning from. reading this thread, i would say the same about danny. different people, different approaches, both very useful.

i think yep was completely uninterested in the songs forum because (and i say this with no malice) he honestly would not know where to start when it came to technical critiques. there were plenty of times when i felt that way, and i'm not very good at mixing. maybe it's a personality flaw.

some people can learn and explain things well and not necessarily be that good at doing them, but they understand the underlying principles. i've followed the advice of many on this forum, including yep, and in most cases i got better at mixing because of it. i then turned around and offered those same critiques, plus some i learned on my own, many of which never made it into my own mixes.

the songs forum

when i first started posting in the songs forum, there were a lot of serious hobbyist/pros there and i considered myself lucky when a couple of them took the time to tear my mix to shreds. i learned quite a bit, but i asked for it, and took things in stride. not all comments were helpful but the ones that were i took advantage of. at that time the focus was on song critiques.

i haven't been there in a while but when i left it had definitely turned a big corner into more of a song swap-meet. nothing wrong with that, but the vibe was (and sounds like it still is) a lot more "moral support" than "technical critique". again, perhaps a personality flaw on my part but that's not really for me. so what i would say about it is this: if you want an honest critique, you should ask for it, and prepare yourself for unflattering responses. and for those offering the critiques - spend your time only if you know the person actually wants more than an "atta-boy".

i could say more but danny already covered it in his first post in this thread

Honest and good critiques with recommendations are better than any good job comments? (for me at least) The good job comments are fun? Everyone enjoys them, but the people with the really good ears, who can give good advice to improve your project, they are the golden juice in which we would all like to shower. Occasionally, someone posts something that you can only listen to and say "wow..." That does happen?
More often with some than others.

re: songs forum

After a few years, you kinda know what to expect from a lot of folks, both in style and quality.

If they are level 5, let's say, and you know the best they can get to is say a level 7, why critique them like they are at a level 20? Hence, then it is more of an encouraging, moral support kind of post.

I know when I post my piece(s) I'll be expecting a critique...

Made it through half the posts so far...thanks again Danny for some great advice and wisdom. And I, for one, can attest to the fact that your instructional videos are absolutely superb. Also that I think I'd learn more looking over your shoulder for 2 days than I have the last 4 1/2 (gasp!) years. Still can't figure out how to get my husband to go along with the idea though....lol (nor do I have the time for it these days anyway...) But thank you. And while we're at it, thanks to all you others who have helped me tremendously. Whether you gave detailed help or just 'atta girl'...whatever...like James Y said...you get to know what to expect from a lot of folks. It works.

Janetthanks again Danny for some great advice and wisdom. And I, for one, can attest to the fact that your instructional videos are absolutely superb. Also that I think I'd learn more looking over your shoulder for 2 days than I have the last 4 1/2 (gasp!) years. Still can't figure out how to get my husband to go along with the idea though....lol (nor do I have the time for it these days anyway...) But thank you.

 
You're soo sweet...thanks Janet! :) Yeah, we gotta soften him up or something. Maybe for a weekend I can be the "community Danny" and spend a day with him then a day with you. If I can tire him out doing some fishing, hunting or whatever he's into, he'll be passed out when we work on the recording stuff and won't mind. LOL! I can hear him now..."Janet, we ain't havin that strange hair-ball hang at the house and that's final!" LMAO!
 
But we seem to be doing ok from afar with this stuff considering how in depth it can get. Yeah, if you could just watch me do things or I tell you how to do things while working together, you'd get it. It's like...you know when someone drives you to a far away place several times....and no matter how many times you go, you're not quite sure until YOU actually drive it yourself? That's kinda how this stuff works believe it or not. Once you literally do it, you never forget.
 
I have a bud that's been fixing up my house since the last hurricane hit here. In return, I'm recording his entire album and showing him how to use Sonar while we do it. So I show him what to do then I sit him at the console and then tell him what to do. He's learned so much in a month of recording his album at one day per week...it's just crazy. If I could spend a day or two with you, you'd be fine. Maybe someday...maybe we can start the "bribe hubby fund" and pay him off to let us hang for a day. Heck, tell him I'll sit in a straight jacket with a bite mask on my face or something if that will help. Hahahahaha! :) I miss you...in a musical way of course. :) Hope all is well in your world.
 
-Danny

1.  I think it might take more than a day of hunting and fishing.  lol
2.  True...sessions from afar would do me a world of good too.  If I ever get into this again, I'll bother you again.
3.  What a lucky builder friend. :) 
4.  A bite mask?  

4. A bite mask?

 

 
LOL! :)  Goes with the straight jacket. :)