Awesome input, much appreciated here guys.

That is about it from here. I've done some things in here that made me go...wha??? Then to undo stuff until I found what it was that happened then I understood a bit more of what it was that I was doing. 

But to actually explain what it was that I done? It is like I have technical word aphasia of some sort

So in other words, when mixing, see how much you can achieve doing simple stuff that you fully understand. Don't dive in with all kinds of esoteric trickery you've read about on the internet.

this is great.  Less is more, master the small stuff before you proceed. 

Middleman


I would add some free advice for the OP. Go to Youtube and type in "Pensado's Place". If you have the time listen to all 60+ episodes which are a master class in mixing. If you don't have the time, as they are 1 hour each, go to his site and just review the ITL (Into the Lair) outtakes from the videos. Those are the best sources of mixing information anywhere and they are free. Clearing the middle of the mix is one of his classics.

Know that, mixing is what you do with the tracks in front of you. If you don't have good tracks, you can end up chasing your tail. I would charge you with learning how to capture the source well. If it sounds good after tracking, the mixing process becomes an artistic endeavor versus a mercy mission. Many times a new learner will be challenged with poorly recorded tracks (wrong space, wrong mic, unfocused performance) and then move to mixing while learning all the tools. The chances of success or satisfaction will be very low and your frustration high. Teaching your ear to understand when you have a good sounding track vs an amateur sounding track is important.
 
As makeshift points out. Half the opinions you will get from people on the internet are guys listening on their laptop or earbuds. Mix opinions can be all over the map based on this alone.

I've visited a few web sites that have educational style videos like Pensado's Place. All sorts of music related topics are discussed in detail by experts in the field. 

Surely it is not an inconvenience to "set in" on a few of these master class sessions to learn something.... is it? 


You should not have to listen to all of them to get the information that will help take your mixes to the next level. Most of the seminar videos I have seen on the sites I inhabit (aside from here) are all very aptly named to make it easy to find the right topic I need. 

Chappel

Danny Danzi


...... I'd rather help people and make a difference over using this space to justify myself to you or anyone else. How about leaving me out of your rants so I can do that and not waste time defending myself?

-Danny

I know this guy has got under your skin but you may as well be trying to communicate with an AI program that doesn't understand what you're saying but continues to recycle phrases that have been programmed into it. He's pushing all your buttons without even trying. You're a major asset to this forum and I hate to see you get wound up like that because it will affect how much of yourself you give here and probably give you ulcers. I defer to your skills and talents but I, too, have been online a long time and have seen these kinds of flame wars. You can't win by arguing. Logic won't help you, facts won't help you. Reason won't help you. All you can do is take a deep breath and let it go. Act, don't react. Ignore it when others make snotty remarks. Your reputation is safe. When all else fails, don't feed the trolls. Starve them and they will self destruct. I've seen it, you've seen it, most of us have seen it. Do you really care about what some jerk thinks about you? Be the bigger man.... let it go. You'll be glad you did.

Totally respect your view on this and thank you for chiming in. To be honest Chappel, it's not that a person gets under my skin...it's more that they have the audacity to spout off stuff to begin with and if they did it in person to someone, you know there wouldn't be a very nice outcome. To put it another way, I'm the guy that lives in his own little world. I have tunnel vision. I see straight lines and walk on my own straight line. When someone crosses my line when I'm minding my own business, there's a problem and one that I can't just dismiss. We can blame it on my up-bringing, my surroundings or who and what I am, but that's just me unfortunately.
 
I used to be the guy that turned the other cheek. But, I'm not as strong as Jesus and am fooling myself to believe that I am. I tried it...I was so miserable I felt like a wuss. I'm not happy about that failure, but I'm me...flaws and all. :) Turning the other cheek made me hold things in that really bothered me to the point of taking them out on friends or family when they may have said the wrong things to me. One day I made up my mind that if someone rocks my boat, you go after the source. Is it worth it to me? Yeah, unfortunately it is. If the moderators are not going to contain or control people of this nature, I'm all for attacking back at whatever expense because it's wrong. People like this make guys like me and others that really are caring and loving individuals say "what's the use..screw this place." Then the good people lose.
 
See, to most people on forums, it's text on a screen that they can just turn off. For people like me, this is the only social life I have at this time of the day. LOL! So I take it a bit more serious than someone that just comes on here for leisure purposes or to read here and there. I'd not say anything in type that I wouldn't say to a man's face. And, other than when I have felt the need to justify or defend myself, I sincerely do not believe I have been out of line with anyone FIRST. I'm of the belief of "if you attack a man, you deal with the attack he sends back no matter how harsh or ruthless." These are the chances you take when you attack a person first. I'd be happy with never getting into another confrontation on here again. But I will not back down from anyone that chooses to try and insult me.
 
You say that "if you let it go it goes away". I could name 3 people on this forum that constantly abuse others that have not gone away nor have they been disciplined correctly. One has never even had a time out. If people chimed in when these people started their crap, I believe the mods would see the problem. Instead you may get 2-3 people barking at them and 10 pm's telling you "right on man, tell him...I can't stand that dude either, we're on your side!!" 
 
This is not fair to the community and no one should have to ignore these people or accept their abuse. They just shouldn't be here when it gets that extreme. There are real people behind the text. Some of them take these words seriously...others laugh at the entertainment they bring to the table. If you can't talk like a real person and extend courtesy like a real person, you shouldn't be allowed to post or be here. The day this all becomes "text on a screen" to me is the day I go haunt another forum. :) Again, I do thank you for your insight....but I'll probably never be one that can just "let things go". Maybe someday, but not today.
 
-Danny

I've gotten used to the idea that I will have to do the block thing as well...as much as I hate to...

@Danny....I still think you have a BOOK in you!!!

I’ve been going back through this thread and trying to work out what it was that got Ben so riled as he was in post #24 – and I’ve failed totally.
I honestly don’t know why he attacked you in the way he did Danny – you didn’t even mention him in any of your posts (you’re not the type of guy that does that anyway – all your posts are designed to educate, help others and shed a little light on some of the mysteries of mixing).
I’m beginning to suspect maybe some bipolar disorder, because he’s clearly reading things that nobody else can actually see, so on that basis, I feel a little pity for him.
 
The facts seem to fit the pattern – the self aggrandisement, the petulant shows of angst, the self-opinionated pseudo-facts that he writes.
All of this suggests a chemical imbalance of some sort.
Maybe I’m wrong, maybe he’s just a grade A A-hole.

Guitarhacker

Middleman


I would add some free advice for the OP. Go to Youtube and type in "Pensado's Place". If you have the time listen to all 60+ episodes which are a master class in mixing. If you don't have the time, as they are 1 hour each, go to his site and just review the ITL (Into the Lair) outtakes from the videos. Those are the best sources of mixing information anywhere and they are free. Clearing the middle of the mix is one of his classics.

Know that, mixing is what you do with the tracks in front of you. If you don't have good tracks, you can end up chasing your tail. I would charge you with learning how to capture the source well. If it sounds good after tracking, the mixing process becomes an artistic endeavor versus a mercy mission. Many times a new learner will be challenged with poorly recorded tracks (wrong space, wrong mic, unfocused performance) and then move to mixing while learning all the tools. The chances of success or satisfaction will be very low and your frustration high. Teaching your ear to understand when you have a good sounding track vs an amateur sounding track is important.

As makeshift points out. Half the opinions you will get from people on the internet are guys listening on their laptop or earbuds. Mix opinions can be all over the map based on this alone.

I've visited a few web sites that have educational style videos like Pensado's Place. All sorts of music related topics are discussed in detail by experts in the field. 

Surely it is not an inconvenience to "set in" on a few of these master class sessions to learn something.... is it? 


You should not have to listen to all of them to get the information that will help take your mixes to the next level. Most of the seminar videos I have seen on the sites I inhabit (aside from here) are all very aptly named to make it easy to find the right topic I need. 

Hi Herb,
 
I don't think it's an inconvenience to check any of this stuff out. There are loads of things you can pick up everywhere, that's for sure. The problem I have is, none of the videos work with YOUR particular sounds. For example, if we watch a video that shows a high pass on a guitar from 200 hz on down, that doesn't mean YOU need to do that on YOUR sound. But, how much will you need to do and what are the bad sources in your sound? See, my whole point in addressing this is....ok, wait..let me try this another way. :)
 
Ok, so we're in Herb Hartley Studios' this morning and we're about to record a new piece. :) Do you have your own guitar sounds, bass sounds and vocal sounds that you sort of use all the time? Like you know, the sounds that you'd consider the "safe Herb Hartley sounds" you are confident with that you know sort of work?
 
I think it's safe to say we ALL have those sorts of sounds, right? Ok...so you're with me so far. If we watch videos of people working on other sounds, it can give you an idea on what to work on, but it never totally gives you the answers on YOUR sounds. Having someone literally pick apart my sounds forced me to create new ones because the ones I thought were good, weren't all that. But I wouldn't have known until someone pointed things out to me.
 
As you mature in this field, you know off the bat whether or not something is going to work. But, to me I sincerely feel all of this starts with YOUR sounds so you can really get an idea on what you're faced with. If not, we keep on making the same mistakes until we either decide to change up our sounds, buy something new, or someone points out why you may not want to use that sound....know what I mean?
 
So for those having problems with mixing, it starts with the sounds they print. If someone doesn't bring to their attention that those sounds need work or show them where they may need to work, nothing changes until the person changes the sound. When you learn what to listen for, it totally changes the playing field. This is why I can't get much out of those other recording videos unless they deal with some sort of technique that would be "in general".
 
But we sincerely have to learn how to use what we have. This makes us grow so much faster. It also makes you search for different avenues as well as possibly updating your gear where if you don't get this sort of feedback, nothing changes.
 
Like John T mentioned about that quote I made about "liking my sound". That doesn't make it good if it doesn't work in the mix, know what I mean? Sure, I got lucky and it could be fixed that particular time, but I'd never use that sound today...and now that I listen to that old sound, I can hear why. When we are not schooled on what or how to listen to something, it's amazing how much differently we hear once we we ARE a little more schooled.
 
There are quite a few old mixes from the 70's and 80's that I loved my entire life. When I listen to them now, I have to totally ignore the mix and listen to the song. That said, I could also be ruined and am over-analyzing things. But, without failure, when I listen to old stuff I liked, the quality just doesn't do anything for me like it once did. And, the first question I ask myself is "ok, I know the band is huge...I know they are loaded with talent and are bigger than I'll ever be, but would I be happy with those sounds?"
 
If my answer is "absolutely not" in my mind, I've matured as an engineer as long as I can do better. I may not be able to write as good or play as good as that band, but in THIS scenario, we're looking at production/quality. I love Queen, but I'd never shoot for the production they got in Bohemian. And...chances are, because of my way of thinking, I might not ever come up with a mix that is as good. Then again...I might come up with something better, you never know. I actually thought of doing that. Replacing the bass, guitar and drums with my own and leaving Freddie sing on it. I wouldn't have the heart to cut his vocals out and replace them with my own...nor would I be able to hang with that mutant. LOL! But I'd be curious to hear what MY idea of good instrument sounds would be like. I just could never bring myself to do it out of respect. LOL! :)
 
-Danny

Danny - these posts are excellent!  thank you for your time.

You've mentioned your tutorial videos here and in other threads.  can we get a link to those?

here's a suggestion:  maybe you should open a service (for pay, of course) to take someone's stems and mix them and video record things as you mix in order to help individuals learn what to listen for.  I personally think that would be extremely helpful to me!  I agree with you 100% - I don't know what to listen for!  but I don't know any way to figure it out other than trying and trying and trying again on the same thing that I have done before - which, obviously  - gets me nowhere!

Bristol_Jonesey


I’ve been going back through this thread and trying to work out what it was that got Ben so riled as he was in post #24 – and I’ve failed totally.
I honestly don’t know why he attacked you in the way he did Danny – you didn’t even mention him in any of your posts (you’re not the type of guy that does that anyway – all your posts are designed to educate, help others and shed a little light on some of the mysteries of mixing).
I’m beginning to suspect maybe some bipolar disorder, because he’s clearly reading things that nobody else can actually see, so on that basis, I feel a little pity for him.

The facts seem to fit the pattern – the self aggrandisement, the petulant shows of angst, the self-opinionated pseudo-facts that he writes.
All of this suggests a chemical imbalance of some sort.
Maybe I’m wrong, maybe he’s just a grade A A-hole.

I never see where it stems from and then I become the bad guy for fighting back most times. It's just not fair mate...but oh well, it is what it is. Thanks for telling me your thoughts. Sometimes it's good to hear that others see things as I do. I'm never upset when people don't agree with me...but when they spot the obvious and admit what they see, it definitely holds more credibility in my opinion. :)  It's when they see it, ignore it and say "ok both of you stop it" that REALLY makes me angry. Go after the source, not the guy that refuses to take any crap and fights back. Smack a pit bull around enough, you'll lose a hand. Ok, I'm more like a Chihuahua...but still! :)
 
-Danny