2012/05/17 09:37:31
Bristol_Jonesey
Smack a pit bull around enough, you'll lose a hand. Ok, I'm more like a Chihuahua...but still! :)


Interesting imagery.........
2012/05/17 09:50:01
John T
Anyway, this is a good thread. Let's forget about Cousin It and stick with it.
2012/05/17 10:02:29
UbiquitousBubba
Danny, I don't think I've ever said it before, but I really enjoy reading your posts.  I think you're giving some very practical, valuable advice and I want you to know that it's appreciated. 

Not all of us have had the opportunity to partner up with an experienced engineer and have him/her explain why they're doing things and making certain decisions.  You have a knack for taking a reasonably complex subject and explaining it in simple terms that don't sound condescending.  Thanks for that.
2012/05/17 10:20:19
Danny Danzi
Beagle


Danny - these posts are excellent!  thank you for your time.

You've mentioned your tutorial videos here and in other threads.  can we get a link to those?

here's a suggestion:  maybe you should open a service (for pay, of course) to take someone's stems and mix them and video record things as you mix in order to help individuals learn what to listen for.  I personally think that would be extremely helpful to me!  I agree with you 100% - I don't know what to listen for!  but I don't know any way to figure it out other than trying and trying and trying again on the same thing that I have done before - which, obviously  - gets me nowhere!

Hi Reece,
 
You're very welcome and thanks for the kind words! Well, unfortunately there aren't any video links because they are all custom made for each person that approaches me. I never use anything generic and always create from the ground up talking TO the person that hired me.
 
Just what you said is how it works. However, we try not to use stems. What people do is, they send me an entire mix either in wave format or in a Sonar bundle file. From there, I load up their project and run video the whole time. We listen to their sounds first the way they are, and I tell them what's wrong with them and show them various ways we can fix the sounds. I do this until all instruments are accounted for and then we form/sculpt the mix. Compression, various effects, panning, tricks and tips, all this stuff gets covered using your mix, the plugins of your choice (if I have them, if not you need to freeze them or process them) right in Sonar.
 
So it's really fool-proof and you learn with everything you are already used to. I've had a really nice end result with all my students that have stuck with it. Some just needed one video in order for them to "get it". Others want to be a little more complete and have been with me for a few years. It all depends on what you're looking to achieve. But I usually show quite a few things from fixing sounds, resampling or re-triggering sounds, introducing you to plugs I use that you may not have so you can see/hear what they do, different ways to make something work, busses, side chaining, parallel compression, what compressor to use for certain things....the list is huge. But it all depends on what you want to do. I can even concentrate on different techniques as well as working on specific instruments. It's always different and can be completely custom. :)
 
I don't like to give names of the people that study with me as that is not up to me, but a close friend of yours is studying with me now and is making incredible gains in my opinion. I believe you may be working with him on something new right now. :) But he's been a joy to work with as well as Markno who made a pretty incredible improvement after one video. But both of those guys had a clue going into it. They just needed a few fine tuning things as well as being taught what and how to listen for things. Both of them have sent me mixes that were so improved, they don't need me anymore. Mark's last few mixes have been great in my opinion...when he wasn't over-compressing. :-Þ His last VH mix was better than the one I did and closer to authentic than mine...baystid! I'm not afraid to admit defeat! :)
 
But stuff like over compression is nothing to worry about as long as you catch it. He knew it before I said anything. The thing is to make the mix audible and without blatant errors in frequency. We'll never satisfy everyone with our mixes. There will always be someone that doesn't like something or may take a shot at one of the instruments you chose. However, if they just say "well, I didn't like your guitar or snare sound" yet both don't have errors or things that make them sound bad, you're right where you want to be. It's your art, your song, your vision, your instruments.
 
We want to make instruments get along together. To do that, we have to know what frequencies will work and which ones will not. When to cut, when to boost. You always want to be a cutter if possible and save a boost as your last resort. If you have too much treble, you remove it first...don't add more bass. Too much bass, don't add treble. The thing there is, you have to know when to do that and when something MAY need a boost because it's too thin.
 
For example, I recently worked on that mix that James G posted on the song forum. For a one take, all in one track, that was pretty awesome because the performance was so great. However, we needed to cut more than we needed to boost on that stuff because it was a very warm, congested nearly analog sound. So once you remove the mid range congestion on something like that, you can sometimes be left with something that is a little thin.
 
So we then have to boost some frequencies to get back what we lost and it's up to you to sweep through and decide which of those you'll boost that enhance the best. Because it was just an acoustic guitar and a voice, we had to be careful of low end. Nothing under 180 was left in there for the most part because quite simply, it didn't need to be. But if you don't know what to listen for and just take things like "ok, this is a guitar...it needs to be thick...this is a voice, it needs to be equally as thick" you end up with congestion because the key to thick is mid range. But you have to use the right mids and use them in moderation.
 
The source you print also creates this thickness. I think the most asked question other than compression is "how can I thicken up my mixes?" The answer is simply...it starts with the print. If you record with a Radio Shack mic, the sound will only be so big. Each mic literally gives us a sound size. A 421 is going to give you more of a sound size than a Realistic mic. A Neumann is going to give you more sound size than an SM 58. So it's "bigger" coming out of the gate. This is why most studio's have a big mic locker.
 
A big mic on a big voice may be too much. Bigger isn't always better (shh ladies...I can hear you laughin now!) when it comes to mixes. Making things wider can disconnect a mix so you have to be careful there too with all these imagers and excessive pans. They sound great in headphones, but on real monitors...man, it's way too separated and disconnected in my opinion.
 
When Philip and I work together, he's a genius at widening and placing things all over the place. But, if I don't reel him in at times, we can get a mix that sounds a little too separated and it literally can kill your impact. In his case, some simple narrowing fixes everything. But in the case of those in need of thickness coming out of the gate, we need to always concentrate on the source of the print. When you have to make something bigger once you begin to mix it, you either do that for effect purposes or because "hey, this is all I have".
 
Now, we've come a long way with impulses and cab emulation etc. But when that stuff first came out, you couldn't really substitute it for a mic'd guitar cab. The reason being? It sounded too direct...there wasn't any air between the mic/cab to make it realistic and it just had a snarl about it that sounded like plugging a distortion box right into a console. Now days, we have cab impulses that are so realistic that capture a mic'd tone, people can't tell. Seriously...when done correctly, I sure can't tell. But again, there will always be a certain something you gain from the size of a print. (print = recording by the way)
 
Run an acoustic guitar direct and then mic it. Or do both at the same time and compare. The mic'd sound will always smoke the DI in actual sound size. With distorted guitars, this seems to be less important due to all the gain. The more gain we use, the smaller the sound unless you really mic up or impulse hybrid like crazy to form a sound stage. If we mic a clean sound and then kick on some gain using the same mic arrangement, the sound gets smaller due to the distortion. Take a guy like our beloved Frank on the song forum. He has a huge guitar sound all the time. Why? He's not using hyperdrive going through it like I would on my tone.
 
So there are lots of things to factor in really. But none of them matter unless someone points them out to a person. We never grow if we keep on using the same sounds and fail mix after mix. This is why I started doing the video thing. It teaches you how to deal with your sounds. When you learn to deal with your sounds and keep at it, you can then deal with other peoples sounds because you know right from wrong. But without direction and someone literally showing you the differences, you can definitely spin your wheels for years before this stuff starts to give you any sort of enjoyment.
 
I look at it this way...if I love this field and cringe everytime I go to mix something and end up unhappy, my days are going to be numbered doing this due to frustration, right? Ok, we'll try to stick it out...but you can only fall on your face so many times before you say "ok Yoyo, you mix this for me man...please? I can't take no more!" Though it's cool to do that and James probably appreciates the work, wouldn't it be great if you did it yourself? I've heard your stuff Reece....you always do a nice job too man. All you need is a few pointers here and there so you can tell what to listen for and how to fix it. Honest when I tell you, it's like the clouds parting after a storm when you can just listen to something and KNOW what the deal is. Even if you have a hard time fixing it, at least you know where the problem lies. Sometimes it takes more time to fix things, other times it's instant.
 
Anyway, sheesh...I totally posted too much this morning. Sorry for that. I just hope some of this stuff has been helpful. :) Back to work for me...have a great day everyone. :)
 
-Danny
2012/05/17 10:30:05
The Maillard Reaction
bandontherun19


I know that the guru's here? The mix-masters have knowledge, templates, practiced techniques? And I really look up to a lot of people here.
 
Then there are others who are really pretty good?
 
Then there are most people?
 
And then? There's me...
 
My goal is to rise to the level of "pretty good." But the time involved? The time is like a job? I put one up recently, it was "OK" I tweaked it quite a bit, it's better, but it's still OK.
 
I've taken some advice from some people I respect, and had to go back in and re-do some things... And listen, and redo some things, and listen, etc... It's taken a week, and I'm probably 1/2 way there? My problem previously (and still) is that I'm an artist 1st. I record, I track, and when I'm done? I do a quick mix, and try to improve it based on feedback. But what I want to do is put out a 1st mix where people listen and say, "hey that's pretty good!" I have a lot of the performance aspect down. I fight with the mix... But it seems like, if you slow down? If you listen to each track, and listen objectivly, and see what needs an envelop, what needs EQ, and what needs to be "re-recorded?"
 
I think this is what the people who are really good at it do. Like sniffing a carton of milk to see if it's off? They just have really well trained noses/ears. You can hide a bunch of "crap" in the mix, with compressors, and limiters, etc... But another thing that the people who do this "really well" do, is they separate the wheat from the chaff.. On the way in, before the mixing/mastering.
 
I still don't understand it "well." But I am trying hard... My next remix, I want a few folks in particular to stand up and take notice. But it takes "hours", "days", "weeks..." I think people who do it quickly are especially gifted.


My feelings on this are that many musicians are trained as musicians, but not necessarily as creative artists, and so they become frustrated when they begin learning about art making.

When it comes to arranging and mixing I think that anyone, who has some back ground in some form of art making, has a head start over any one who hasn't.

The fundamental premise of any art making (or craft) is that it is a step by step process and each step relates to all the other steps.

The experience of taking baby steps while reminding yourself of the aesthetic goal is universal to almost any and all art making.

There are countless ways to make art, but the basic cause and effect experience is universal, and any experience one has with it, in any medium, enhances competency and comfort in other mediums.

When people have the experience of developing art step by step then the art of mixing becomes more transparent and the methodology becomes more obvious.

The fact that we all have different experiences to relate to is why some people feel that mixing is easy and others feel it is some sort of difficult to learn art.


If you don't have much experience making hundreds of minor qualitative decisions that amalgamate into a aesthetic impression than the task may seem over whelming.

If you have a bunch of experience making hundreds of minor qualitative decisions that amalgamate into a aesthetic impression than the task may seem familiar.

If you don't have much experience, than you will learn that making these decisions will seem easier as you get more experience.

The good news is that once you have the experience you will realize how mixing isn't actually hard to do. It's is just a lot of hard work.


You can do it.

Follow your instincts and be willing to change you mind.

"Listen" more than you "think", and learn how to listen effectively so as to incorporate specific interests into a project wide awareness.

Practice keeping a holistic perspective on the entire project while scrutinizing the details.



That is basic art making... and YOU CAN DO IT!!!



all the very best,
mike






2012/05/17 10:35:04
Bristol_Jonesey
Sheesh, your posts get better & better man.

Even reading between the lines on this thread alone, I want to go back and unpick my last few mixes & start again.

Take care Danny - I'm sure we'll speak again soon.
2012/05/17 10:44:10
Danny Danzi
Mr. T Anyway, this is a good thread. Let's forget about Cousin It and stick with it.


Agreed! I promise to do my best to adhere by that!

Bubba with the flexible chic in profile Danny, I don't think I've ever said it before, but I really enjoy reading your posts. I think you're giving some very practical, valuable advice and I want you to know that it's appreciated.

Not all of us have had the opportunity to partner up with an experienced engineer and have him/her explain why they're doing things and making certain decisions. You have a knack for taking a reasonably complex subject and explaining it in simple terms that don't sound condescending. Thanks for that.


Thanks for that Bubba. No, actually I don't recall any comments coming from you. I wasn't quite sure what your feelings were about me...so this makes me feel great..thank you. :)

I really do try my best to make a difference here which is why I become so defensive when attacked. I definitely take things a bit too serious at times, but can't help my passion and need to really help people. I'm glad that you've taken me exactly the way I hope everyone would. I'm honestly not in this for business or to have anyone bow down to me. It's really not about that. I just get so tired of living in a world of hype and deception. It has always bothered me. I never got anything from anyone when I asked for it other than riddles. This stuff isn't as hard or complicated as people make it out to be. No one should have to be smart to understand this stuff.

I'm the first to admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I'll also admit that as much as I love Bob Katz that his book hasn't helped me become a better mastering engineer. It's too complicated for me and I am a certified dope. I still try to read it over and over. But it's just out of my league. That said, I didn't need that book to be decent at this and don't need most of the science that surrounds it. I just try to stress that all the time because I sincerely feel people get too wrapped up with the science to remember why they do this. It's all about sounds, ears, abilities and choices. I don't need science for any of that and neither does anyone else. If it helps them to do a better job, I will never take that away from them. I'm just saying it's not a necessity and we don't need to make this any more complicated to people. This is why I always go all out to explain things hopefully in a language that any dope like me can understand. :)

So it's like this...bottom line. I'm not the greatest engineer since sliced bread, I don't believe that, don't expect anyone else to, I don't have any awards, I don't have any degrees other than the gift of hearing, and I've never done anything credible other than two world wide releases for myself via 3 different record labels and work with some big name people that keep on coming back to me. That's all I've done..truth be told. So I'm a nobody but a proud nobody. :) 

That said, I have no problems sharing what I do know with others. If you like what I do, have gotten some results out of the info I've shared, then I'm credible. If you don't like what I've shared, and my info hasn't worked for you when you've tried it, I'm all for chalking me up as "a windbag". LOL! But I'll always be a windbag with the best of intentions that sincerely wants to make a difference for the better in this community. :) Again, thanks for the kind words and the post. :)

-Danny
2012/05/17 11:15:14
Beagle
Thanks so much Danny!  Yes, I know who you're talking about and I think his mixes have improved 100X in the last few songs!  the one I'm working on with him I think is probably his best mix yet.

I'll send you an email in the next day or two.  take care my friend!
2012/05/17 11:50:54
John T
There's another very good point in there about how you "don't need most of the science that surrounds it". A lot of that stuff is interesting, of course, and if it floats your boat, then go for it. But you don't need to be able to build a plane to be a good pilot, and it's also worth noting that being able to build a plane doesn't automatically make you a pilot. Leo Fender never learned to play the guitar, and most guitarists can't build one. Applying this to our field, there's a lot to be said for just learning how to mix, and entrusting that the people making the tools have done their job right.
2012/05/17 12:23:30
jamesg1213
One of the most interesting and refreshing threads I've read here in a couple of years..keep it going guys.
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