2005/12/20 16:13:49
danhazer
I've never been a Boogie fan, I'm afraid, as they're somewhat of a one-trick pony. YMMV

I disagree with you. Mesa's are very versatile. Even the amp known for its great metal tones, the Rectifier series amps, can go to a sparkling clean tone or pushed tone with no problem at all.
2005/12/21 16:04:52
no criminal intent
believe it or not.. the hardest thing was not believing the sound you heard with your ears.... it seemed that when we had a good sound in the room.. the mics heard something totally different.....we kept having to turn the volume and drive levels down... until it was very clean sounding in the room.. but mics captured that nice round sound that you hear.



I think thats pretty common. At least it has been in my experience. I usually cut the gain by quite a bit when recording.

zumba
2007/01/08 21:41:37
Ninurta
I've been duplicating Carlos' guitar sound for about 20 years. I've owned two Mesa-Boogies, a Yamaha SG 2000, and a PRS. I use D'Addario strings. I've even used Carlos' personal picks. I actually stumbled across a keyboard magazine in the '80's (I forget which one), where they interviewed Carlos and he actually told them how he set up his amps. Right now I use a Mesa-Boogie F-30 and a Roland Micro-Cube, and it is quite easy to get Carlos' sound out of a Micro-Cube. The guitar has to be a neck-through body mahogany (the maple top helps, but it's not absolutely necessary), with serious pickups. Santana has used Seymour Duncan '59s in his Yamahas in in his first PRSs, and PRS Santana IIIs in his newer PRSs. I used Seymour Duncan 59s in a Les Paul copy with a Mesa-Boogie Studio 22. In my Yahama SG-2000 I used two EMG 81s and a PA2 preamp, and in my PRS Santana SE I use 3 EMG 89s, and Afterburner, and three 3-way mini-toggle switches. The D'addarios Santana uses are .009s, and the pick he uses, made by Dunlop, is basically a large Fender triangle pick. Having used the man's picks myself, I are Mike Bloomfield, from whom Carlos learnedwould say it would be unwise to underestimate his picks in the process of trying to achieve his sound: they have a rounder tip than regular and teardrop picks and thus have virtually no pick attack. I use a Dunlop white nylon .30 pick. I actually found it difficult to play with them--the characteristic tone comes from holding the pick in the middle. It's a medium-gauge soft material. Basically, Santana tries to get the distortion as smooth as possible, to make the guitar sing instead of scream. He runs both the gain and the volume controls at 6 or 7. The important thing is not the amount of distortion; it's the fact that the controls are set in the same place. The amp has to sound almost clean. You can even get that sound on 2. On a Mesa-Boogie get just enough to make it sing and fill the room, and then in performance if you turn it up a little you will find that you get feedback, which if you hop on right away--you can hear it coming--and add vibrato, will give you endless sustain, especially facing the amp. You may have to compensate somewhat for the brightness or depth of the sound of your guitar by changing the tone settings on your amp. The guitar will also sound different when the tone control is set at 7 instead of 10 and when the volume is at 5 instead of 10. If you watch Santana on video you'll see he's always twiddling the knobs, especially the volume knob. Here are the amp settings, from Carlos himself; gain--6; volume--6; treble--7; midrange--5; bass--2; reverb--7; and presence is completely unnecessary. If you add more distortion or more reverb it doesn't sound right. I would recommend using the bridge humbucker full up and turning the tone control to 7 to get the "Supernatural" sound. The "Caravanserai" sound would be more like the volume on 5 and the tone all the way up. You'll have to experiment. And you must also bear in mind that two of the greatest all-time masters of the subtleties of the use of the pick are Mike Bloomfield, from whom Carlos learned, and the undeniable all-time master--Carlos himself. So the amp and the guitar are just tools. But when you hear people say that Carlos' sound is in his hands--believe it, because it's true. Those crazy wide bends, that subtle whispering pick attack, that crying vibrato, the slides and pulls, and that wailing sound that define him most all of all--aren't coming from the amp. They're coming from his hands, and from nowhere else.
2007/01/13 09:13:52
davidchristopher

ORIGINAL: j boy
I've never been a Boogie fan, I'm afraid, as they're somewhat of a one-trick pony. YMMV


You're allowed not to be a fan of The Boogie, but you're wrong wrong wrong about it. It's the single most versatile amp I've ever owned (RectoVerb 50). It's clean channels can do a fendery shimmer or a marshally grit, the dirty channels... oh my- everything from smooth to heavy. I'll never go back to Marshall. Try it again. YMMC.

Santana actually is credited with naming the Mesa "Boogie":

ORIGINAL: Mesa Boogie
The trick was to get all the high power electronics, big transformers and a JBL twelve built reliably inside a package that was intended to house a ten inch speaker and produce twelve watts! But it was worth the effort. The quote from one of the hottest local guitar slingers, Carlos Santana was,
"Man, that little thing really Boogies!" Thus the name was born. Over two hundred of those Princeton Boogies were built between 1967 and 1970 up a dirt path in a mountain workshop that I converted from a dog kennel built for racing greyhounds. Today, most of those "pre-Boogies" are still around, alive and treasured by their owners.


2007/01/13 12:37:39
NW Smith
Very cool thread here. I am a big Santana fan from ay back. While a lot of the technical information is cool to read, I would have to agree with Mully about the most important part of getting the sound is in the man's hands. I think it's important to have a setup that gets decent sustain with a "clean" distortion. I think the bottom is is that you have to work on his techniques for getting the feeling and expression from the notes.

I will say that his "sound" has evolved over the years - from his early Gibson SG days to his current PRS set up. My favorite Santana sound era is from the late 70's (Moonflower) era when he was using those Yamaha guitars. Man, he got some amazing sustain.
2007/07/11 09:48:05
Arturo Magneto
Anybody knows where I can find Santana's backing tracks ? Thanks
2007/07/11 12:50:59
jamesg1213
In Santana's studio, on the shelf?

Just kidding - here y'go;

http://rock.mididb.com/santana/
2008/04/16 21:17:56
manwithgod

ORIGINAL: Ninurta

I've been duplicating Carlos' guitar sound for about 20 years. ..... I've even used Carlos' personal picks. ..... The guitar has to be a neck-through body mahogany (the maple top helps, but it's not absolutely necessary), with serious pickups. ..... the pick he uses, made by Dunlop, is basically a large Fender triangle pick. Having used the man's picks myself, I are Mike Bloomfield, from whom Carlos learnedwould say it would be unwise to underestimate his picks in the process of trying to achieve his sound: they have a rounder tip than regular and teardrop picks and thus have virtually no pick attack. I use a Dunlop white nylon .30 pick. I actually found it difficult to play with them--the characteristic tone comes from holding the pick in the middle. It's a medium-gauge soft material. Basically, Santana tries to get the distortion as smooth as possible, to make the guitar sing instead of scream.......

will find that you get feedback, which if you hop on right away--you can hear it coming--and add vibrato, will give you endless sustain, especially facing the amp. You may have to compensate somewhat for the brightness or depth of the sound of your guitar by changing the tone settings on your amp.

...You'll have to experiment.



There's a good shot of his pick in this clip:


u toob

And a good example of his sustain here: toobowski

I found the above advice very helpful. I had some small hard white rubber wedges on my desk which are for stopping windows from rattling in the wind and I tried using one as a pick on my les paul and bingo! the sound is verrrry smooth and there is absolutely no pick noise. I'm new to electric guitars so I don't know anything about amps, but I found that using the rhythm pickup with my treble middle and bass up full on the amp and the tone button on full sounded pretty darn close to the Santana sound on a smaller scale.

So I am going to stick with rubberr picks from now on seeing as Santan'sa is the sound I'm aiming for
2008/04/16 21:40:17
Guitarhacker
One thing I read about Carlos (in Guitar Player Mag), I believe at the time he was playing a Yamaha through a boogie.....he had a large solid block of steel milled and routed into the guitar's body directly below the bridge to increase the mass of the guitar and thereby the sustain.

Boogie...what an amp....I agree that it is a very versatile amp. I have the Studio 22. I bought it when the 22 first came out and have had it ever since. Several players wanted to buy it but it's not on the market.

I also believe that a Kay guitar with a Kustom amp in the hands of Carlos would still sound like Carlos...maybe that's a slight exageration......but....A good player can make a cheap rig sound good and conversely.....a good rig with an poor guitarist will sound like crap.
2008/04/16 22:32:41
Cromberger

ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

Boogie...what an amp....I agree that it is a very versatile amp. I have the Studio 22. I bought it when the 22 first came out and have had it ever since. Several players wanted to buy it but it's not on the market.


Hi, Guitarhacker,

Couldn't agree more. I've got a Studio .22+ that I bought sometime in the late '80's, IIRC, and what a great amp it is. Sadly, mine is in need of some work in the preamp nowadays, but I'm hoping to have it fixed ASAP.

I have seen several posts on this forum in which people have said bad things about the Studio .22. I don't know what they are looking for in an amp, but it would be hard to find a small amp that is more versitile for live work and sounds amazing when recorded than the Studio .22. To each his own, I guess...... And my Studio .22+ is definitely NOT for sale, either. It's a keeper that I intend to hang on to for as long as I can still play guitar at all. And I've been playing for 37 years, so far. ;>)

Also, as weird as it seems, I've had many people say to me that I sound a lot like Santana, even though I was playing a 1992 Strat Plus (with the Lace Sensor's) through the Studio .22+. And I was definitely not trying to sound like Santana, either. Go figure.

Best regards,
Bill

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