ORIGINAL: davidchristopher

ORIGINAL: Mesa Boogie
The trick was to get all the high power electronics, big transformers and a JBL twelve built reliably inside a package that was intended to house a ten inch speaker and produce twelve watts! But it was worth the effort. The quote from one of the hottest local guitar slingers, Carlos Santana was,
"Man, that little thing really Boogies!" Thus the name was born. Over two hundred of those Princeton Boogies were built between 1967 and 1970 up a dirt path in a mountain workshop that I converted from a dog kennel built for racing greyhounds. Today, most of those "pre-Boogies" are still around, alive and treasured by their owners.

Hi, davidchristopher,

Wow, what a great quote. In the late '80's-early '90's I used to regularly sit in with a blues band in which the front man/guitarist had one of those "pre-Boogie" Princetons. To this day, I can't remember having heard a more amazing amplifier. And it still looked like a stock Fender Princeton, which was a real mind blower. I agree with Carlos: Those "Princetons" really did "boogie". I tried to buy that amp from the guy every time I played with him but, needless to say, he wasn't going to let go of that incredible tone machine.

Best regards,
Bill

ORIGINAL: Ninurta

I've been duplicating Carlos' guitar sound for about 20 years......

I've even used Carlos' personal picks. ....

, and the pick he uses, made by Dunlop, .....

...it would be unwise to underestimate his picks in the process of trying to achieve his sound:....
,

I found that the rubber pick kind of licks across the strings like a tongue instead of clicking across them like plastic picks do. It produces a purer sound which is all string and no pick. You get that unmistakable santana full bodied rounded sound, with no sharp edges. Santana & Michelle Branch

Cromberger....

More on the Boogie 22.

I bought mine new back in the late 80's I think....hard to remember exactly. I had used Ampeg (to heavy and underpowered), several Carvins, good amps but the 2nd one was a Carvin takeoff of a Boogie....12" spkr 100w and to be honest....just to much power, to get the right tone at a respectable volume. I had played in a band that was 3 piece (rock & country) so we tended to be loud anyway. But I was in a house band (6 piece) using the 100w Carvin and it was just to much.

When I played the Boogie in the store the amp was "only" 22 watts....I'm thinking this will never work..live. I bought it with a 30 day money back. The sales guy said take it and try it....With only 22 watts, I was amazed when I used it live...I was holding my own against the other guitarist with a 50w Marshall/strat combo. With only one 12" spkr the sound was just a bit weak. The tone was 100% right! I had two 4x12 Lab Series cabinets and a spare Carvin DCA-800 stereo power amp sitting around collecting dust....so... I placed one cab on each side of the stage, powered them with the DCA-800 and sent the Boogie direct out into both channels. Using the volume control for the DCA-800 channels allowed me to dial up the fullness level I needed without blasting the first 10 rows, and it also allowed the other guitarist to select his optimum level of my guitar on his side of the stage. everybody was happy!

Playing with that rig was so sweet. It was the first time someone from the audience actually walked up to me and complimented me on the tone of my guitar. When that band broke up, I sold quite a bit of my equipment, all the PA stuff I owned the 2 lab series cabs, but not the Boogie or the DCA-800. I recently bought a used Marshall 4x12, because a few of the musicians I play with at church are talking about putting a band together....the boogie/DCA-800/marshall combo smokes...I can't wait to hear it in action again.

BTW....I do not use any effects pedals at all. Just a quality cord so that nothing changes that sweet 69 Gibson SG/Boogie tone.

ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

Cromberger....

More on the Boogie 22.

I bought mine new back in the late 80's I think...

Sounds like you bought your's at almost the same time as I bought mine.

I originally bought mine as a small, light amp to take to rehearsals, since my "gig rig" was a big, heavy amp and my band's rehearsal space was up a flight of nasty stairs. But the 22 watts turned out to be pretty darned loud, as you said. So, ultimately, I wound up using the Boogie as my gigging amp and simply put a mic on it and sent it through our PA. Great tone, rock solid reliability and *easy* to carry around. Great little amplifier.

Then I discovered that the Studio .22 sounded amazing through my Marshall 1960A cabinet. Talk about a fat, punchy sound! I still can't belive that little bugger is only 22 watts!

I recently bought a used Marshall 4x12, because a few of the musicians I play with at church are talking about putting a band together....the boogie/DCA-800/marshall combo smokes...I can't wait to hear it in action again.

I'm sure you've already tried it, but if not, try just the Boogie through your Marshall bottom without an additional power amp. Unless you're playing very high volume gigs, I think you'll find that the combination is plenty loud. Well, of course, it won't play squeaky clean at high volume, but for overdriven tones, it gets plenty loud for me. ;>)

When that band broke up, I sold quite a bit of my equipment

Been there, done that, still hate myself for being so foolish...... ;>) When I think of the guitars and amps I've sold over the years, it makes me cringe.

BTW....I do not use any effects pedals at all. Just a quality cord so that nothing changes that sweet 69 Gibson SG/Boogie tone.

I used to roll that way, too. In fact, for quite a long time during the '70's, I gigged with a Les Paul plugged straight into a 1952 Fender Deluxe---no efx, no reverb, no nothing. Great tone for a blues/rock band. In later years, when I was in more "pop" oriented bands, I had to go with multi-effect units, total MIDI control, the whole nine yards. But, the good tone still came out of my Studio .22. When I hear some of the recordings from back then I'm still blown away by the tone coming out of my rig. I can't believe it was me playing.....

Best regards,
Bill

I was listening to a documentary where he was talking and playing a bit, and he was using a crazy amount of amp reverb. Not sure if he does on the stage or not. But it was like, stop playing, wait a few seconds for the reverb to die down enough to talk, then start talking again.

I'm using a 20 watt Storm Amp Storm 20R and it sounds very good to me and has unreal sustaining power. But I have to leave the volume on its lowest level seeing as I live in a unit very close to other units. If I ever have the need and the cash I'll get one of those Boogie amps for sure seeing as you all speak so highly of them. Here in Australia US goods are very expensive. Here's a Boogie amp price list Mesa Boogie and at the bottom of the page is a Boogie amp Santana used in Africa.

I bought a rubber door wedge which was on special for 1 buck at the supermarket today and made another pick with that and it is even better than the rubber window wedge. Weirdly also is the fact that I searched for rubber guitar picks on the web and they're called "wedgies". They are made in the US and I don't think I can buy them here unfortunately. I'm blown away by the sound they produce and will probably use them more than other types of picks.

It was mentioned above that Santana has a solid block of steel inside his guitar to add sustain to it, and I would believe that due to the width of his guitar strap! It's the widest strap I've seen and obviously it is designed to support some serious weight.

The comments about feedback and how to use it for sustain are very interesting also, and that is one trick I'll use when I can.

Another trick I discovered by accident today is moving the finger across the fret back and forwards about half an inch during sustain to make a warbling effect with a sharp edge in the middle. I've noticed that sound in some of Santana's works and I wonder if he uses the same method?

you also might look into getting a hold of some Vintage Altec 417 8H Series II speakers ( 12's)
its a well know fact that Santana has considered them to be a fave of his ....
btw .....I have been using them since 79 in my Marshall Mark II 50 watt 212 combo ..........

I was listening to a documentary where he was talking and playing a bit, and he was using a crazy amount of amp reverb.

ATM I have light hall reverb+some pitchshifting to broaden the sound under my left expression pedal, and distortion under the other - amazing how tiny changes in either *totally* change the sound, and if you get the hang of moving that about during play, it's like it's 5 entirely different takes or so.

Having realtime control over reverb is not the first thing you'd think of playing guitar, since you normally leave that to the ambience, but it can be pretty powerful.

(If this was mentioned above, I missed it. Sorry). But in his earlier days at least, and maybe even now, I understood that he used a Wah-Wah pedal to achieve some of his sound. He would find a sweet spot on the pedal and leave it there. Well, at least that is what I read somewhere once, and from his earlier sounds I would not doubt it. I toy around with that mid-range Wah sound quite a bit myself. Not sure what he is up to today.

Just to add a bit of confusion : I recieved Stewart-MacDonalds "Trade secrets newsletter" last week, where Dan Erlewine showed what he´d done to Carlos´ `63 Strat - so apparently he´s not using PRS stuff exclusively. You can probably still hear it´s him regardless of what guitar he´s using - as mentioned.

Per