Beepster


He's just saying that the interval between the first and and third note of the chord are a fifth apart. Here is the triad of a C Major chord:

C E G
I II III

Here it is in relation to the C Major scale:


C E G
I II III
C D E F G A B
I II III IV V VI VII

As you can the third note of the triad is the fifth note of the scale.

For some reason that part of the post confused me too but rereading it I don't see a much better way to word it. I think I just needed more caffeine.

I've had a couple years of formal harmony/theory lessons so I have a pretty good grasp of voice leading, I just didn't associate "notes", as he used it, with chord degrees. I'm used to that kind of thing being described very differently and thus I was a bit confused. The concept and execution of what he's talking about is pretty simple once you see the logic in it.

Oh... well, yeah. Should be simple for you then. I'm mostly a guitar player so yanno... I look at everything from the perspective of a fretboard. Just thought I'd try to help clarify. Sorry.

It is in the voicings too. I was taught in jazz harmony how to move say through a chord progression using as many notes as required eg 4 notes. Root plus a three note voicing on the top. A three note voicing can move through a progression with very little internal movement of voices, eg going from a 3 7 9 voicing to a 7 3 6 voicing while going from a II to a V chord.  eg D Min to G7 One only one note moves in this case. (C moves from C down to B) There are Basie voicings / closed voicings or ensemble (more open) voicings that use root fifth on the bottom and a three note voicing on top. 

Here is the idea of North, I went through my Jazz degree with these guys. I had the fortunate experience of backing them in a band situation too. They sound unbelievable with a rhythm section. They do well without it too. I have recorded them on jingles many years ago! They are putting into practice some nice jazz voicings with a minimum of internal movement over complex progressions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ1MEJaye_8 or Stayin Alive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP2kdSQZNB0&feature=related

@ beepster:

 I'm formally trained and have been reviewing things that I did know and finding out things that I hadn't known, but used without realizing it.

I started taking classes in elementary school where we learned about melody, harmony and rhythm. However, I got into harmony in the later years. During that time, I taught myself - messing with software, reading books and to this day I'm still messing with software, reading materials, watching videos either reviewing stuff I do know or picking up on things I didn't realize.

Heck, I even 'taught" some of my classmates.

For instance, the major/minor keys. I was taught to go up a (major) sixth to find it relative minor; however, I noticed I could simply go down a (minor) third. This helped with determining intervals - especially if there compound ones.

To which the teacher (sub that day) said: "He's a good teacher!" lol

All of this helped shaped the sound that identifies me to people. "He adds color to his music." And this can be heard in my arrangements.

I do realize I put it on a bit thick and I don't mean to. I just say whatever comes to mind. Note, don't take that to mean me boasting, but I will tell you what I do know. Like I said, harmony and its intricacies are my favorite part of music.

Back to the voice-leading, that was just one example. There are many combinations.

I'll give you an example regarding one of my arrangements. Blossoms.

The strings (though on one track), can be split into four voices. (Five, but I look at them as in root note + chord - especially if it's beyond a 7th like on a piano.)

However, what my left hand does makes no difference; it's my right hand I'm worried about. So, to maintain comfort, my fingers don't move any more than an third (of some kind). And I know that the top note likes to "step down", so the other notes have to accomodate however they can to make this work. (It depends on where she wants to go and you can't tell her where! Don't ever make this mistake!)

Tension/Release or Conflict/Resolution. (Consonance/Dissonance)

That's the magic behind the magic of chord progressions/harmony.


@Jeff:

They're great! Thanks for the link! I bet you'll never forget that experience!!

Beepster


Oh... well, yeah. Should be simple for you then. I'm mostly a guitar player so yanno... I look at everything from the perspective of a fretboard. Just thought I'd try to help clarify. Sorry.

You did help clarify and have no reason to be sorry. I'm a guitar player too and know where you're coming from. The basic concept is pretty simple and is probably much easier to understand than you think. You do it all the time when playing first position/open chords on the guitar.


Let's say you're playing the chord progression C - am- F - G. look at the movement on the second string. C (first fret), am (first fret), F (first fret), G (open). Three chords using the same note. That illustrates the principle of minimum movement between chord tones. As far as parallel fifths, it depends on what you're doing. Guitar players use parallel fifths all the time. We call them power chords or diads (now commonly spelled as dyad).


I'm pretty sure that you use voice leading principles all the time and don't realize it. If you ever sit down and decide to learn the terminology there will be plenty of times where you'll think, "oh yeah, I do that". Of course, once you get into more complex chords it gets trickier but only because you have more options. You hear a lot more kinds of chords and harmonies in orchestral music and jazz than you'll ever hear in pop music. But for pop/rock/country/blues, folk, etc.... A little bit of theory goes a long way.

Sorry for not replying, guys. I'm in the middle of a bunch of mayhem right now. Lots of cool posts here. I'll be back. Cheers.

Jeff Evans


Here is the idea of North, I went through my Jazz degree with these guys. I had the fortunate experience of backing them in a band situation too. They sound unbelievable with a rhythm section. They do well without it too. I have recorded them on jingles many years ago! They are putting into practice some nice jazz voicings with a minimum of internal movement over complex progressions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ1MEJaye_8 or Stayin Alive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP2kdSQZNB0&feature=related

Mighty fine singing. I'm betting every member of that group listened to a lot of the Manhattan Transfer growing up.  

I read something awhile back that the Beatles to avoid that problem with out of sync s's and t's was the one singing harmony didnt sing it to begin with.  So only one singer is ending the word or phrase with an "s" or "t". 

Yeah, quite a common trick that.

Though takes a bit of practise to pull it off. It's hard to un-learn all your parts to just drop the plosives and sibilance. Well at least I find it darn difficult! The other option is 5 hours of painstaking manual editing ;)