That's not just an entro. All her music is more or less like that. It's an acquired taste but I've come to like it quite a lot.

droddey


I look at a band like The Jellyfish, who I think are immensely creative. Their BellyButton and Spilt Milk albums are incredibly examples of creative use of the studio. But, ultimately, are they doing anything that the Beatles didn't do or wouldn't have done 50 years ago if they'd have had a 24 track tape deck? It's hard to say that they are.

Was always a big fan of Jellyfish. They had an awesome sound and incredible artistry. Their songs, however expertly performed and put together, always seemed to be about doing something cool musically rather than being cool musically, if you catch my drift. I still listen to them and have nostalgic affection for those tunes, but as I have gotten a wee bit older I now understand why they never made it big. All art, little heart.


As for Philip's OP, we are all standing on the shoulders of giants. There is nothing new under the sun. There is no missing chord. There is only our individual askew views of the world.

To be fair, they also came along right as the Grunge thing was starting to take off. Belly Button was released a bit less than a year before Nevermind came out. By Spilt Milk that was around 93 and by then being a highly crafted power pop band was kind of like having a skin disease probably. Maybe worse actually. I could see someone with a skin disease fronting a big grunge band at the time. Authentic pain and all that.

Rock Out with Your Cock Out !





ps
Is James Yoyo actualy Les Claypool ?

When you think about the history of music, its kind of a weird journey.

Cave men beating drums and chanting evolved to single string instruments and flutes which evolved after tens of thousands of years to lyre's, tambourines and horns which evolved after thousands of years to recorders, violins, cellos etc. Complex vocal harmony evolved as well and it all met up in the times of Mozart & Beethoven to one incredible assembly of opera and orchestral music. There it kind of dwelled for hundreds of years until rural folk music evolved using banjos, tubas, fiddles and in the last 150 years the modern guitar. Early marching bands brought us the bass drum format which evolved in the last 150 years to basic and now massive drum kits. Another key point in time is the drum kit development and the evolvement of electric guitar in the last 65 years along with the bass guitar to replace the double bass and you have the evolution of the 4 piece rock n roll band. Then came the electronic keyboards in the same period which took the pipe organ and initially evolved to the B4, C3 etc Hammond organs and now keyboards of every shape and size. The solo singer evolved in the last 150 years with deep lyrics and backup singers from the chants of the cotton fields and gospel music. (Although David in the bible was the original gospel songwriter and there was call and answer prayer in early Synagogues) Then the evolvement of emulation technology in software, sound creation which evolved away from the instruments that served us for 25,000 years. In the last 25 years the counter culture movement of hip-hop rap was kind of a melding of cave man, modern sounds and new rythmatic lyrical chanting.

The instruments it seems have had and will continue to have the biggest impact on creative expression. The constants seem to be our sound tools, vocal arrangement & evolvement, and the need to express our feelings and experiences. So my advice would be to pick up the tools that move you and sing the notes that you feel with the words that best express your experience. Put in your 1200 hours of practice (as the theory goes) to get good and your style will evolve. In that experience of practice and work will be the creative newness you seek.

Astonishing discourses by all ... Thank you! 

Jim (Yoyo): I'm always a huge fan of your posts (word-hooks that invoke and evoke)

Its awesome that MiddleMan beholds history and even macro-music-evolution (age-changes) ... to unearth music-fossils. :)

We are concerned about fakeness exuding in 'our' art:

Exceedingly impressed by U_Bubba and Rus ... both have inspired me with powerful words and concrete phrase examples ... in the war for true vs. false expression.  I love your discourses: You are both majestic artists and a great joy to re-read!

IIRC, I've heard excellency defined as: "harmony symetry and proportion" (Sir I. Newton or Jonathan Edwards perhaps)

Outlandish emotional excellencies (as U_Bubba explains) and "fun"-woven music magic (per Rus) should likely help cure some of the fake me.

:)

Note: Petboys produced 'Eastern Boys and Western Girls' (I think) ... with a boisterous bass-line and poorly rapped cliche lyrics (IMHO) ... but texturally rich and infective kick+trump-synth-bass ...

... and such outlandishly sweet chorus singing did contrast heavily ... and thereby outlandishly redeem those awkward verses.  Such is awesome art (for me)!

Sometimes it seems the only way to be original today is to not try so hard to be original. Just concentrate on making your music the way it plays in your head - and that's about all you can do.

Great discussion here!

I do feel that sometimes we do tend to do a lot of second guessing with ourselves and that, maybe, we do need to shut down the 'inner critic' to keep playing what is in our heads. At least, for me, that is what I am up against....

Kalle Rantaaho


Sometimes it seems the only way to be original today is to not try so hard to be original. Just concentrate on making your music the way it plays in your head - and that's about all you can do.

+1000! I think this is excellent advice, Kalle and exactly what I was going to post until I read your post.
 
The thing I think a lot of people lose is, just about no one sets out to be original or an innovator. People just do what they do and over time, they find themselves and create "this thing" that may be considered by some as innovative.
 
A good example of this for me will always be Eddie Van Halen. There's a guy that was inspired by Hendrix, Clapton and Page...yet look how he turned out. Sure, inspired by innovators, but nothing he does sounds like any of them.
 
However, Ed does remind us in interviews that he too went through that phase where he copped things sort of note for note. Another thing to keep in mind....when Gene Simmons of Kiss tells you "sorry, I can't help you guys....no one is interested in you" that sure would make me have second thoughts. Instead, VH kept at it doing what they believed in...and well, the rest is history as they say.
 
But in many interviews....Eddie has said he never set out to do anything different, mind-blowing or original. He just liked to play his guitar, chase tones and come up with weird sounds. Little did he know...he created a style and inspired a few generations along the way.
 
I think we can sometimes get lost in the whole "original" thing, Philip. We try so hard to be original or different that it becomes obvious. The true creativity isn't there because of trying so hard instead of just letting things fall where they may, ya know?
 
For example, when you an I work together, sometimes you like the quickie ideas I come up with for your stuff more than the stuff I physically put time into and write. Other times, the stuff I spend the time on is the winner. Sometimes rough edges are a good thing, other times...not so much. But those little quirkie things I send you that may not be done yet, sometimes put you in a different frame of mind creativity wise, ya know? This is when we're usually at our best...when we may not try as hard.
 
Don't get me wrong, a poor performance is a poor performance and in my opinion, we should never settle for stuff like that. However, sometimes a performance with a little dirt under the nails so to speak, is a good thing depending on the song as well as the vision.
 
Another thing I'd like to ask...what do you consider fake? Is fake "too polished"? Fake meaning too scripted/written and not from the heart as much? You just may be over-thinking things brother. I think you are an innovative soul that has a VERY original sound.
 
None of my friends are into the Christian thing. To be honest, I've never been into it myself due to people exploiting God for all the wrong reasons. (excluding you and a few others on this forum of course because I know your hearts) You know the ones I mean there. However, you have a VERY artistic flair in your material. It always makes for a great, sonic listening experience with production to die for while having a good message.
 
I've loved your work when I was not involved in it as much as I have when I have been a part of it. We just made things "different" in my opinion, never better than what you had. You have a gift. That gift is, to deliver a message in a style of music that quite a few common folks don't always enjoy due to the religious subject matter. You know you've heard people say "not into the whole God thing" or "not into the religious stuff" many times, right? Yet, quite a few of those same people always return to listen to your songs when you post them because they ARE that good, man. Even if the subject matter is not for everyone, they can't deny the creativity and production that goes into your work. It's always pro sounding and takes any listener, no matter who they are, on a journey.
 
It's so jammed with cool stuff, sometimes it takes multiple listens just to take it all in. That in itself is something original. Good hooks like the ones you come up with can stick in the mind of someone that may not like the Christian message to where they find themselves singing the hook and laughing while saying...."darn you Philip, I'm not into this stuff but you always have a way of getting into my head!" That my friend, is success.
 
So don't over-think things and don't ever sell yourself short. Fake to me is when you do something just because or "for the sake of" when it is not really what's in your heart....which you do not do. So I'd not worry about any of this stuff brother. You do a fantastic job with all your mixes whether you have good men/women behind you helping out or you do it all yourself.
 
One other thing you have that not a lot of people have....is an instant identity. This to me is one of the most important aspects one can have as an original artist. The ability to be known in seconds. We can tell a Philip song in under 10 seconds most times because you have your own sound and identity. This is the key to being a successful artist in my opinion...even if that success doesn't bring forth money and fame. :)
 
-Danny

That seem to be my falldown...I'm always second guessing myself...