Everything I do sounds almost NEUish...maybe I go that way....

What was I thinking?

Of course!! My sound backdrop here is very much filled with drones and incidental sounds..cicadas, tractors going through fields, grain driers...

Hi Barry. I say go out and make some ambient recordings of your atmospheres over there and incorporate them into an interesting ambient piece. Then without even trying you will sound different and original. Brian Eno always used to say any sounds that get into the recordings are legit and part of the sound scape!

I live in Melbourne and there is always a soft beautiful drone of energy pulsating out in the city which I can hear at any time. I came from Canberra where the opposite is true. It is deadly quite there and the sound of the countryside resides there with beautiful bird sounds and distant quiet atmos effects. Great place for studio! But so is Melbourne too for other reasons.

BenMMusTech


Actually rus I think being different for the sake of being different as long as you are aware of the things I've already mentioned is the key in breaking blandness and predictability.

It is those of us who go no when everyone goes yes, it's those of us who stubborn and obstaninate, it's those of us who dare to dream and live outside the box when the world is trying to shove a round peg into a square whole that make the difference.

The problem is the world has never been so scared of difference in such a long time. Somehow a religious paradigm and ferver is gripping society not unlike the dark to middle ages.

And I'm not talking about religion as such, I'm talking about conformity as religion and this is perpetuated by media.

If you look at the messages being beamed into the young, a paranoid apathy is brainwashing the youth with the dogma of you must fit in, or else.

Or else you won't have a job, your music won't be heard, you won't have a loving union.  Any of the things we need to survive in modern society, any thing that you can think of that we call society.  

It is those of us that ask why? Who have always help grow the society we live in, where are these people now?

We complain about the blandness of music, art whatever but we have cooked the golden gooses by being fearful of difference.

Sorry Philip I might have ranted a bit.

Ben

I agree with this; however, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. I shouldn't say right or wrong, but as Danny pointed out, there is such a thing as forcing the issue. I'm all for being assertive and chasing after what you want, but sometimes you have to slow up and down - take a step back and think.


Creativity is not something that can nor should it be forced and one can often times tell when something is.


And yes, I understand the philosophy; however, you need those similarities to make you different. Not everybody can be Beethoven to Mozart, Van Halen to Ozzy or Madonna to Lady Gaga; yet, note how each took notes and separated themselves. They aren't all that different. 


If anybody is stereotypical, it's the audience moreso than the performers.


I don't think anyone is fearful of being different. It's a fear of being the same. 


The next Pop act comes out and says: "I don't wanna be like Katy Perry!" However, she ends up sounding like her because she either hasn't a) studied KP's music enough or b) what everybody seems to do these days: "This song used the same melody/riff/progression as a million other ones!", then forces the issue only to see that "whatever you do, someone else has already done it." (Note how everybody wants to sue everybody else these days! (!))

However, she could use KP's influence to write something different and actually be different and it be done in a way where it is not forced!

I think if people would just do what's in their hearts and not worry about what someone else has done. (For legal reasons, yes, but that isn't the point.) If there were one song in the world, there's probably a significant amount of ways it could be played or sung; however, the same song is different!

Focus on the 1% that is different than the 99% that isn't. (You have to be really honed in with that kind of disparity) However, note that are differences in the 99% group, too. If it comes off as "nit-picking," well ... I said you have to be really tuned in!

I heard about 7 songs while eating at an establishment - analyzing every one of them. Did I come across similarities? You bet, but I came across lots of differences, too (and I mean the less obvious)

That's a tip for Philip and anybody else. Sometimes it's better to be subtle than blatant. (If this isn't true regarding production, I need to quit what I am doing - no really I might! lol)

Danny Danzi

Rus W


Still don't be different just for the hell of it, you know?

That's my feeling as well, Rus. I think when people TRY to be different "for the sake of" it sounds forced. Kinda like the guy that goes out of his way to really try to win over a woman. If he would just be himself without trying so hard or attempting to be something he's not for the sake of "winning" her over, he'd probably win her over faster because women can see right through. Play games with them, they'll allow it for a little bit but then they'll teach you how to REALLY play the game.
 
I'm just a fan of "do what you do....it will create, evolve, grow, break out or stay the same all on its own". It's like that band The Darnkess. Believe it or not, they are 100 times better than people think they are. Like mega good. I've heard demo's that the labels all rejected....why...I have no idea.
 
One day, they were in their practice room all depressed. So depressed, they started singing parodies of their own songs to be funny. The singer started simulating Tiny Tim....everyone laughed so hard and had so much fun, they took it out of the practice room. It caught on...the next thing you know, from not being so serious, they launched an incredible career. Yet, the songs no one will EVER hear will appeal more to musicians and are incredibly good songs without Tiny Tim on lead vocals. That guy can actually sing very well when he's not putting on that front. 

In this situation, they weren't really trying to be different at all. They were having fun at their own expense, came up with a marketing plan, exploited it and there they are. I still think it's sad that they didn't get notoriety for being themselves and doing what they truly believed in...but hey, whatever works. One day you're down in the dumps busting on yourself, the next day you're selling out arenas by not taking things so seriously. Go figure! LOL!
 
At the end of the day for me, those that are different due to their nature/make-up or whatever that do not purposely TRY to be different, are the one's that get it right. Those that make decisions for the sake of being different always seem to just sound bad and throw things in "just because". Ok, it's still art, but to me, it's a bad decision most times...and it sounds like it in the songs where people do this. Ever listen to something and then ask the artist why they did something and they reply "just to be different"?
 
That "different" when you ask about it, is usually something that ruined the song 8 out of 10 times, ya know? Coming into your own as an artist takes time. Achieving an identity takes time. Writing a lot can help while trying different things. However, the decisions that get made on some of these "different" things isn't always the correct choice in my opinion. If we look back at all the innovators...as I said before, none of them set out to be different nor did they know they would inspire millions. They just did what they did and people either loved it or hated it. "Different for the sake of" is just not a decision I feel is a good one being an artist. You BECOME different on your own...."different" chooses you, we don't choose it. Just my take though...but I totally agree with all that you said. :)
 
-Danny

That first paragraph said it all! Are you speaking from experience? LOL

As far the last two:

You're right! Things shouldn't be taken seriously - or I should say, for granted given my marriage metaphor. If you wouldn't force a marriage, why would you force a divorce? That's a joke, but that tells you that perhaps you're thinking with your head and not following your heart. (Which would be ironic coming from an ear player who often says play with feeling)

I have a unique canvas and color palette and it shows in my music, but I'm not the only person that has it - nor will I throw mine away because of that. I asked myself how Blossoms could differ from Waltz because I knew I could do it, but I did feel like she tapped me on the shoulder and I couldn't ignore her. Not to mention having her vote of confidence. She knows me and I know her and like an actual marriage - if you know and really love each other, despite the problems.

If you love what you do, being the same shouldn't matter. If anything, that nets you a bigger circle. If 100 people got together and noted how they tried to be different from everybody else - ironically, there's the similarity. The similarities should bring out the differences - not the other way around.

That "different" when you ask about it, is usually something that ruined the song 8 out of 10 times, ya know? Coming into your own as an artist takes time. Achieving an identity takes time. Writing a lot can help while trying different things. However, the decisions that get made on some of these "different" things isn't always the correct choice in my opinion. If we look back at all the innovators...as I said before, none of them set out to be different nor did they know they would inspire millions. They just did what they did and people either loved it or hated it. "Different for the sake of" is just not a decision I feel is a good one being an artist. You BECOME different on your own...."different" chooses you, we don't choose it. Just my take though...but I totally agree with all that you said. :)

 
I totally agree with this statement, Danny. 
 
30 years ago I had a college design teacher tell me that it takes time to find your own style.  Whether it be drawing, painting, photography, or music, you keep at your art until you find a little something that works for you.  Then you keep doing it.  Milk it.  Refine this thing that is working for you.  All the while, you keep looking for another little something that works for you.  As time goes by, you suddenly have your own identity.  Sometimes it takes some one else to say, "Hey, I really like what you did here.";  and then you kind of recognize that that is something unique to yourself.
 
I agree though, a lot of it is not really trying  to find a way to be different, its more like doing the things you really like, while kind of finding out what make you different and unique.

Rus: well said. I think at the end of the day, some of the differences are going to be based on everyone's approach/feeling on this. If everyone had the same mentality, we'd live in a forrest where all the birds chirped the same song. :)

Mike: this really stood out to me. "I agree though, a lot of it is not really trying to find a way to be different, its more like doing the things you really like, while kind of finding out what make you different and unique."

I'd like to use myself in this situation if I may? I'm an 80's rocker that loves all styles of music. I tend to lean towards what I grew up on that made the most impact on me. Like the die-hard classic rock guys will always mention who they like best and what they feel is best, I'm no different. What I like to think I have going for me is I have never shot down anything and just listened to music and enjoyed it while taking things from it sub-consciously over the years.

When I was born, my mom was into all the cool 60's stuff. I liked it too. As I grew older, there were certain pieces of music that really hit me...some, I could care less for. I can still remember being 5 years old with headphones on playing my drums to Chicago, Alice Cooper, Beatles, The Who, Bing Crosby and whatever else my mom had around the house. LOL! But something happened to me during the 80's that just made me LIVE music instead of just listen to it. What that was....I have no idea because there wasn't much going on musically other than some pretty intense guitar...so I believe that may have been what it was for me.

That said, I just emulated my heros until I sort of found myself. I'm not doing anything different that hasn't been done before and though I'm not inspiring any generations, I have made an impact on a few peoples lives while getting a chance to share my music with the world. That to me, is success in a sense because I found what my personal "voice" is all about even if it's influenced by "so and so" and has a familiar sound. Some day, maybe that won't be the case for me and I'll have this completely different sound that doesn't even resemble anything else.

But until that time...I'm completely content with what I do right now and get excited each time I finish a song. When this happens, I call my best friend and say "dude, I had another kid...you gotta come over and meet him!" He does the same to me when he finishes a song. So we meet up, have a beer or two and enjoy our new children. Sure, some of them look and sound like other children but that's ok. Sometimes we end up with something totally off the wall and experimental that may go astray from our standard norm....that's ok too.

As long as you feel good about what you do when all is said and done, it will always have your stamp on it whether it's different, mind-blowing and innovative or just a killer pop rock song with an infectious hook. But I still think when we try to be different, it needs to be an educated decision of "different". I just can't for the life of me....accept something "for the sake of" that may ruin a song because that "different" was done in bad taste. I know...that's not for me to decide, but I hear it all the time and it makes me cringe to the point of not liking something.

Accept the art part I do...but to me, when something sounds bad, it just sounds bad. When a jazz guy has a beautiful melody and decides to go so far out of the box that it no longer sounds musical, I say "why did you have to do it in THIS song?" When a guitar player shreds a million notes per second or decides to sweep pick like a broom in a ballad, I say "why did you have to do it in THIS song?" and I'm a shred lover.

When the Beatles did some of their weird stuff....it always seemed to fit no matter what. I don't ever remember cringing over one of their decisions other than I have always hated Paul's slightly flat vocal in "Twist and Shout". It just sounded too out of his range, strained and well...regardless of how much of a hit it was, as a musician and a singer that prides himself on staying in key, I think it sounded bad and still sounds bad to this day when ANY singer attempts to sing out of their range. Some can call it art, me personally...I just call it "bad decision making" and definitely a questionable performance that should have maybe been a bit more thought out. But this is why guys like Paul are stars and I'm typing on a forum wishing I was one. :)

-Danny 

Yes, it has gotten weird. Who was on the Today Show recently and on TV at night in a whatever concert? Justin Bieber (however his name is spelled). One song he has out which seems to be popular (I donot follow him so I really do not know) is Around the World whatever it is. When I heard it partly on TV I noticed that most of it was done with auto-tune (for effect, for what?). Well, it sucks, so much for conformity if they think anyone else wants to hear it except people who don't really know what it is. It sucks!

spacealf


Yes, it has gotten weird. Who was on the Today Show recently and on TV at night in a whatever concert? Justin Bieber (however his name is spelled). One song he has out which seems to be popular (I donot follow him so I really do not know) is Around the World whatever it is. When I heard it partly on TV I noticed that most of it was done with auto-tune (for effect, for what?). Well, it sucks, so much for conformity if they think anyone else wants to hear it except people who don't really know what it is. It sucks!

So true spacealf! I remember dealing with a radio marketer for one of my songs a few years back. He was explaining to me what our game-plan would be. It's amazing how those guys "work a song" and then he got to a part of his plan that made me cringe and he said "and of course we'll need to auto-tune your voice" and I started laughing. He wasn't laughing with me, so that told me he was serious! I'm like "c'mon, please laugh....you were joking with me, right?" He says "no, you gotta keep up with the times".
 
Of course I got into an argument with him because though I am far from a great singer, one thing I'm not...is an out of key singer that needs auto-tune to sell myself or my songs. He said "it's for effect purposes" and I said "well that's an effect I must do without. If you can't sell my song without that, I guess you're not the radio marketer for me." His response was "that would be correct, I'm not the guy for you" and he hung up. LOL! I never forgot that. I just can't believe that someone would add something like that "for the sake of what's in". I cringe when I hear that effect no matter who does it. I must admit though...when Cher had that one song she did that started it all, I actually liked it because it was done in sections...not the entire thing. It was a neat effect but not something that I ever thought would catch on like it has...sheesh....that's one fad I hope dies off quickly.
 
-Danny

Oh please. The Bieber kid can sing. When every other popular act uses the T-Pain effect, if you wanna sell records, you go with the flow.

I am somewhat mystified by the energies expended by musicians to denigrate whatever is considered trendy pop music. This disturbing trend has been noticeable since the 70s. I  indulged it a bit when I was in college, but only really to make me feel cooler than I was.

I love pop music, always have. One of my all time favorite tunes? Silly Love Songs. Go ahead and laugh, but if that isn't a near perfect pop song, I don't know what is.

And what's wrong with that? ;)

Not laughing.  I have always liked that song as well.  If for nothing else other than the "back at you" statement from Paul as to, "this is who I  am". 

I  have always been amazed at how he could play that bass line and sing the song at the same time, but he handled it quite well on the Wings Over America tour.