• Techniques
  • Help me analyzing chords in this song: This never happened before (McCartney) (p.2)
2012/06/26 09:51:32
Alegria
"Beepster"
The relative minor IS the natural minor, AKA Aeolian.

Well, yes, I know that. But my point was that referring to any major key's relative minor doesn't leave any room for interpretation, whereas referring to any major key's natural minor does. In my book, it's not quite the same thing IMHO.
2012/06/26 13:37:12
Beepster
??? I'm confused. By referring to the natural minor specifically I was closing off the possibility of interpretation (or more specifically misinterpretation) of what scale I meant. If I said relative minor it may (but not likely) have been interpreted as mel minor or harm minor when I meant nat minor. I wanted to create a mental picture of taking the key root > nat minor > mel minor. It's pretty much the train of thought I'd try to convey to a student. Most of you guys know more about music theory than anyone I've taught before though so perhaps unnecessary but still important. Certainly not trying to be argumentative. If you have another way of viewing this process I'd love to hear it. This stuff fascinates me. Cheers!
2012/06/26 13:40:50
Beepster
BTW I'm a guitar guy so I probably view theory a little differently than piano/keyboard players. The mapping is quite different and modes become particularly important when creating cages and what not.
2012/06/26 14:31:28
retrosaurus
OK, I get the connection to descending melodic minor, but since that chord progression defines a new section, and sounds like a key change, and the chord progression itself, if isolated, would clearly define G Major, why not just say that the chorus modulates thus? Upon listening to the song I found the intro tricky, and A melodic minor was an astute observation, as the intro theme does have a minor sound. The verse, however, even tho the chords in the first line are entirely minor, has a much more Major sound, altho somewhat ambiguously, but this is just what you would expect if the b6 is present. Other than Am all the chords seem to point to analysis of either E Major or (the relative) C# minor as the key for the verses, and describing the Am chord as being borrowed from the melodic minor. I would tend to lean toward E myself, since the verses conclude with the E chord, but it's certainly not a strong cadence, and I note that no version of a B chord is present, as might be expected. You could also say that it kind of floats between A melodic minor and E (or C# minor), but I think this is unnecessarily complicated, given the simplicity of the theme. With that in mind, it seems hard to justify analyzing the chorus as being based on descending A melodic minor when there's a simpler alternative. I would add that the chorus theme is mostly ascending, which would seem to demand the presence of G#, which doesn't occur until the end of the section with the reappearance of E Major, which brings us back to the verse. I'm hope I'm not being argumentative (well, not TOOOOO much...). ;) It's just that it's an interesting question, and I'm trying to work thru the reasoning... Andrew
2012/06/26 14:44:51
Beepster
Well I only took a quick poke at it. I'm sure if I really pulled it apart I could get at exactly what is happening when and where but it would be a bit of a chore. I might take a closer look when I have some time to kill but I've got some other things going on right now. I'm so OCD about stuff like this when I get going I could spend an entire day pinpointing every mode and key change. One thing about analyzing like this is sometimes there is more than one answer. Like when you play two guitar strings beside each other on the same fret. Is it a fourth or is it an inverted fifth? Just a matter of perspective and how it's being used. It is indeed interesting stuff and I've dedicated a large portion of my life to it. There is always more to learn though. :-)
2012/06/26 14:57:32
Beepster
Okay I couldn't help myself. I checked out what you were saying about that section but the E Mag and the E7 puts the key of G back on the curb. It fits better with A melodic minor for that particular part. If it were G the VI would be E minor even if it was melodic minor. I'm more curious about the G#7 C#7 part which as I said seems to be implying a key change to B if only for a brief period. McCartney is a very quirky and intelligent composer and it's weird little progressions like this that make you instantly recognize his work. He just has a certain way of putting things together that are like a musical fingerprint. Unmistakable. Cheers.
2012/06/26 15:04:09
Beepster
And again I'm not saying that my assumptions are rock solid on this. I'd have to pull out the guitar and maybe some chart paper to really get to the truth. I don't want to come across as a pompous knowitall especially if I could be wrong. ;-)
2012/06/26 22:00:06
The Band19
I know a guy who writes in West Virginia? Everything he writes is in a miner chord.
2012/06/26 22:17:32
Beepster
I know a refrigerator repair man. His name is Ian.
2012/06/26 22:21:42
The Band19
I know a girl in the film industry? Everything she writes is in an "augmented" chord?
 
I know a guy who's lost everything? Everything he writes is in a "diminished" chord... :-(

I know a guy with 6 brothers and sisters? Everything he writes is in a "7th" chord?
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