Dean: I like that Coco Rosie stuff, but I'm surprised that you don't seem to realise how studio-concocted it is. It's literally *impossible* for performing players to sound like that. I think we must be *at least* talking at cross purposes here.

John T


She's amazing, but the LP is rubbish.

She is amazing live...

I like Magma. I think Gong are a bit of a slog. If you;re into that kind of thing, a friend of mine recently introduced me to the fantastically named Brain Ticket. Check those bad boys out.

Brain Ticket are like a psych band that occasionally go to a disco. Like Aphrodite's Child or that kind of thing. Flutes, organs and bad-ass beats.

droddey


Wow, this thread continues to prove that the most common form of communiations on the planet is misunderstanding. I don't see how you guys are getting any of this stuff from what I said. I don't want everyone on the planet to sound like Steely Dan. I don't even listen to them because I find it too refined, though I respect the talent.

I'm talking about HONESTY. What's so hard to get about that? Just put out there what you are and can honestly do. I love roughly made music. In fact when anyone asks me these days what's something out there I think is interesting I point them at a band like CocoRosie, a lot of which is incredibly primitive. But it has an amazing vibe because it is real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6bInhOhUYs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51K4cUTuvc0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDb7dAnm79I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBWxjAiO_KQ

Check all of the above out. Don't listen to one and think you know what they are because the range of stuf in there is pretty vast. Some of it is incredibly primitive but it gives me the chills.

And of course I'm a huge fan of Yes, Rush, Pink Floyd, and so forth, which is much more produced and some of it vastly more technically oriented. And though those bands are very much into experimentation, they don't misrpresent what they can actually do. They can all bring it live.

I don't care how you express yourself, I just wish you'd be honest about it, and not put out songs that are inhumanly perfected by extensive use of editing and corrective tools, and just pretend like you did it. I don't respect that any more than I respect anyone in any other profession misrepresenting their accomplishments.
And I don't think that Lady Gaga is a bad musician. She clearly is someone, like Madonna, who sees a market and goes after it with a vengeance, and makes herself more about image than music. I have no problem with that either, per se. But if anyone here is trying to claim that there isn't hugely more *performance* enhancement going on today than there was up until the advent of widespread digital tools in the mid-90s, then I have to laugh. And I mean not of the sort where it's an obvious effect, which is always just a matter of taste. And I certainly don't think it's improved music at all. It's cheapened it ultimately.
 

 
I certainly don't hold your views against you in any way and I respect you for sticking to your guns. I simply disagree with you and think your feelings about it may hinder your development as a producer.
 
I'm not one to expect folks to think or have the same tastes as me. Sorry, I'm not a fan of any of those bands you just mentioned. I like Gilmore's soloing though.
 
 

I used to think I liked Pink Floyd, but I eventually realised I just liked Gilmour's guitar playing. He's awesome, I could listen to him all day. But as a band I think they're mostly dreadful.

On which basis, I think Wish You Were Here is the only LP I still like. I think when The Other Three get their groove on without Waters's intervention, they're pretty good.

Funnily enough, I was trying to learn the comfortably numb solo today. Tell you what about Gilmour; speed-wise, nothing special. Composition-wise, moderately special. In terms of *phrasing*, though, he's off the hook. It's in the grasp of most intermediate guitarists to play the notes he played, but there are monster shredders who can't get anywhere near *how* he does it.

 I can't really say I've given all their albums a chance but the ones my friends had growing up I noticed once the soloing stopped I didn't much like the rest.

John T


Funnily enough, I was trying to learn the comfortably numb solo today. Tell you what about Gilmour; speed-wise, nothing special. Composition-wise, moderately special. In terms of *phrasing*, though, he's off the hook. It's in the grasp of most intermediate guitarists to play the notes he played, but there are monster shredders who can't get anywhere near *how* he does it.

   
Indeed I would also put Billy Gibbons in the category of achieving more with one note or bend than most guitarists can do with their shredding bag of tricks and acrobatics. Gilmore played with heart