So, if I pitch correct a guitar solo note that is just slightly flat that is cheating, but if I punch in for a few notes and play it over, that is not?  Those are both performance enhancement issues, correct?  

Seems like comping segments of a guitar solos into one, be it tape or DAW, would also be enhancement.  That's been done for years by some pretty big star players.

I find this whole thing kind of confusing, really...

If I record my wife singing Gaudette and then place a hall reverb over this is this 'cheating'?   

droddey

FastBikerBoy

What's the difference between using audiosnap to tweak some timing and re-recording it? Not much.

Uhh.... because if you rerecord it and get it right, then you actually can do it. If you can't do it and use Autosnap because you probably aren't ever going to get it right, that's not remotely the same thing.

 

Now I'm lost..................

I know I can play in time, sure I'll make the odd mistake like everyone so if I choose to use audiosnap rather than re-record then that's okay? I can still play it but I may choose to us audio snap for whatever reason, like I may not be able to find the exact tone if it's something I recorded several months or even years ago.

I really may not want to set up a drum kit, mic it up just to re-record that one snare beat that's bothering me. I think you're vastly overstating the abilities of these tools. They aren't going to make a poor player sound great, that's for sure.

droddey

John T


On your "create good performances out of bad ones", you seem to be the only person on the thread who thinks this is even possible.

I mean create performances that seem perfectly in time and on pitch when they weren't either as performed. How 'bad' they were originally isn't the point, it's how much better they were made to seem than what the person could actually do, without any admission of that fact.
 

This is where your argument falls apart IMO. If a musician needs to drop in to fix something ore re-record a part that wasn't performed either. They 'fixed' it, so what's the difference between fixing it by doing that or fixing it by moving it using a different method? None  as far as I can see. It was still fixed. I'm also fairly certain that anyone who had to fix everything using audiosnap would fairly soon get fed up with and go do something less boring instead.

Remember at the very end of the day it is the emotional response that you feel and how well the music reaches out and touches you, right in the listening environment that counts. It has nothing to do about how the music got there that is important. 

It could be a great live Jazz performance that does it or some great sequencing by Tangerine Dream. It makes no difference. If they both move me then they are both great in my opinion.

When you obsess about how it all got there it is the same as obsessing over what type of hammer is hitting the nail. In the end the nail goes in and that is that. Great music can exist from either a great performance at one end of the scale and the most amazing music can be assembled from random sounds at the other but it still needs to be great though in the end.

It is wrong to assume that great music can only be created one way. That is what technology is doing for us now. It is allowing talented people to make great music without the initial great performance to start with. But in the end it is the music that counts. You can still have mediocre results from a total live performance (poor to average band) as well as ordinary editing and sequencing.

I don't have any issues about using any tools available including session players, tricky editing, Melodyne etc whatever it takes. You have to just keep the end result in mind the whole time you are doing it. If you have not used these tools well then you will hear it and the end result will be bad and give you away and the effect won't be good. But on the other hand use them well and the end result turns out great then you have achieved what you have set out to do.

Wow a can of worms, I have a problem with pitch correction tools, have I used them. Yes but only sparingly a note but I refuse to use it if the vocal is just bad, do it again.

On the other hand vvocal is an excellent production tool, in particular for creating effects and even fake three part harmony.

It's much the same with audio snap, now I'm a little bit mor liberal with audio snap, this is for a particular reason.  As a hybrid musician I know it's impossible to play note perfect with electronic instruments.  I should mention that I can play to a click track and I'm pretty spot on.

Case on point, I set up a three o three 8th note arpegiator sound.  I played along with this synth sound at 90bpm now it was close but not perfect, wacked over the AS and wamo it was perfect.  I was so happy with it.


The other thing about the audio snap is can be used as an effect and a really cool effect.  I did a version of the Beatles track Because.  I recorded it too fast, whacked the audio snaps over it slowed it down and actually added a whole minute to the track and wow the track just sounded better.  It made it really mournful.

What droody is not understanding these tools are production tools, much like varispeed, flanging and yes tape splicing.

What we need to do is use these tools spareingly and differentiate between a live sound and a produced sound.

It is silly to auto tune and audio snap an acoustic guitar and singer, tell them to go away and learn their craft.  Even if your in a band I would say that.  But if you are a producer, composer, engineer, muso like me and not looking at trying to play your music live, then it's fine.

I'm a painter and and I use these production tools as part of my palate.  Imagine if (sorry) droody was The Beatles engineer, I want to sound like the Dali lama on top of a mountain.  Sorry John we can't do that I just you want you sound like John Lennon.  There would be no Tomorrow Never Knows.

Finally after using audio snap palate since version 6, I've mastered it and it works really well.

Peace Ben 

Great post from Jeff there. 

noticed he completely avoided my question because his statements reek of nothing more than "the sky is falling" irrationality. Show us these unskilled musicians who have used audiosnap or something similar to magically give them playing ability. I have worked in the music industry and have known musicians from hobbyists to grammy winners and have yet to see this thing that he is basing his flawed whining on. One actual example. Not a bitter strawman argument but just show me one talentless person who somehow cheated themselves to a good record? Yes, there is plenty of medicore music, but that music is mediocre because of the content and not technology. Not to pick on him, but Justin Bieber is going to sell because little girls find him cute and labels are able to market that. It was the same with Justin Timberlake backstreet boys, and new kids on the block , and Andy Gibb and we can keep going back to the earliest pop idols. Justin Bieber would be a hit if he stood on stage and sang songs over a single chord because that is the way poop works

You know that battle at the end of Star Wars, with the Death Star? They're not really in space. It's a scandal.

 
 
Ahhhhhhh thats ****ing awesome dude !
 
I was seriously getting depressed reading this crap. This was the first thing said that makes any sense. Yet I continue to read.

On occasion ill purposely change the time or the pitch off to be quirky.

And last I checked Ive got balls as big as church bells.