Got thinking about this in my Multiband compression thread. So just wondering what techniques you guys like to use or have heard about for that Wall of Sound?

My early stages of thinking is basically two things - full frequency spectrum and heavy compression. Dynamic arrangement is also very important. If you want that wall of sound to hit you in the chorus, you need to make the verse pretty sparse to make the comparison.

Listening to some music by Muse, I find they usually have a HUGE sound, but there is rarely much going on at all. Typically just drums, bass and one or two guitars is enough for them. Orchestral and choir sounds are also used, but they don't need it to create this massive sound. I think a lot of their sound comes from very large and full sounding guitars in the first place, followed by suitable big reverb to fill in all the left over gaps in the frequency spectrum.

I have been experimenting a little with low drones for added warmth and thickness using some low notes on the NI Strings included in X1. It's very subtle so you don't actually hear it in the music at all, but mute it and the fullness and thickness just disappears. I'm liking the feel it creates. And this is all pre-mixing. I'd love to hear it after mixing is complete.

Anywho, please share. Links to great articles etc would also be very welcome!

I'm sort of trying some interesting things here using drones of another sort as well.... http://music.service-1.de/html/dronos-dronemachine.html

I'm liking the sound this generates....

Hi Matt,

Well, there are quite a few ways you can do this. It all depends what your "wall of sound" involves. You mentioned "modern" in your other thread, so I'm going to assume you're talking guitars being the wall of sound with other enhancement instruments? I'm hoping I'm correct there.

There are a few bands that do this really well with keyboards being involved. It adds that little extra power going on. The other way to do it is with a few guitars. Some playing octaves, some with a haas effect or even a slight chorus effect with panning being the thing that fills up the holes as well as different sounds with a different eq curve. In my opinion, the use of compression isn't the key here. It's all in the sound placement as well as the sounds themselves creating the wall.

For example, Good Charlotte had a tune called "I don't wanna be in Love" that was awesome with layering and that wall of sound. They added a load of guitars and keys that made the tune incredibly rockin' yet with this awesome dance feel to it. The layers on that tune as well as the quality still blow me away today. It was a great use of keys and heavily driven guitars. It never quits and bombards you with that wall of sound.

Another band that did this rather well is a newer band called Escape The Fate. They do a song called "Gorgeous Nightmare" which has this same type of vibe to it. You can check out the song here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om2K8PP0OJE

I had a client come to see me a few weeks ago that wanted to cover that song. We were unable to find any backing tracks for it at this time, so he made me record the entire thing. My version isn't quite done yet, but I want to share it with you because it's not done yet.

In their version, you hear keys and sound effects all over the place. I haven't done that yet other than the farty bass sound which I'm not done with either as it needs more decay and a real bass will be added to it over top. I have a load of work to do on this song (as well as the gentleman that is going to come and sing it) but my reason for sharing it is, listen to the guitars on the pre-chorus and chorus parts. The layering here is what I *think* you may be after. You mentioned Muse and how they were just using 2 guitars, bass, drums etc..and this in my opinion, is a good representation of that considering how stripped down my version of this song is right now.

It's 2 guitars, synth bass, drums that I played on my V Drums kit using Steven Slate 4.0 and 2 more rhythm guitars that come in during the pre's and the chorus. If something like this is what you're after, let me know and I'll explain the process to you, ok? Here's the link to my unfinished mp3: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/DannyGorgeousNightmareMaster16.mp3

It's raw, so forgive me...but for as raw as it is, I think it came out pretty good at this point even when I compare it to the original. Once I add all the right stuff, tweak the mix a little and add some room so it doesn't sound as direct, this is going to sound pretty cool....at least that's what I'm hoping. :) But the guitar layers almost give you the impression that a synth was used if you listen close. Yet, the only synth is the farty bass sound. Now imagine some good synths over top of those guitars in a higher key like they did in theirs...it's going to build up really nice. See what you think...and like I said, if something like that is what you're after, I'll share how I got it. If I totally blew this and misinterprated what you were asking, please accept my apology for wasting your time brother.

-Danny

Hey trimph1 that drone generator is pretty boring actually. If you want to hear something really cool and its free get the free Reaktor 5 player. It comes with 3 free synths one of which is called Space Drone. That is serious.

I get what that drone generator does but it is based around one note. For me the word drone implies something else and much more complex textural sound. That is what Space Drone can do. Newscool is pretty out there too!

Sorry to hijack the thread. I realise you guys are talking about something else. 

Jeff Evans


Hey trimph1 that drone generator is pretty boring actually. If you want to hear something really cool and its free get the free Reaktor 5 player. It comes with 3 free synths one of which is called Space Drone. That is serious.

Thanks!! I'll check that one out!!

Danny Danzi


Hi Matt,

Well, there are quite a few ways you can do this. It all depends what your "wall of sound" involves. You mentioned "modern" in your other thread, so I'm going to assume you're talking guitars being the wall of sound with other enhancement instruments? I'm hoping I'm correct there.

There are a few bands that do this really well with keyboards being involved. It adds that little extra power going on. The other way to do it is with a few guitars. Some playing octaves, some with a haas effect or even a slight chorus effect with panning being the thing that fills up the holes as well as different sounds with a different eq curve. In my opinion, the use of compression isn't the key here. It's all in the sound placement as well as the sounds themselves creating the wall.

For example, Good Charlotte had a tune called "I don't wanna be in Love" that was awesome with layering and that wall of sound. They added a load of guitars and keys that made the tune incredibly rockin' yet with this awesome dance feel to it. The layers on that tune as well as the quality still blow me away today. It was a great use of keys and heavily driven guitars. It never quits and bombards you with that wall of sound.

Another band that did this rather well is a newer band called Escape The Fate. They do a song called "Gorgeous Nightmare" which has this same type of vibe to it. You can check out the song here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om2K8PP0OJE

I had a client come to see me a few weeks ago that wanted to cover that song. We were unable to find any backing tracks for it at this time, so he made me record the entire thing. My version isn't quite done yet, but I want to share it with you because it's not done yet.

In their version, you hear keys and sound effects all over the place. I haven't done that yet other than the farty bass sound which I'm not done with either as it needs more decay and a real bass will be added to it over top. I have a load of work to do on this song (as well as the gentleman that is going to come and sing it) but my reason for sharing it is, listen to the guitars on the pre-chorus and chorus parts. The layering here is what I *think* you may be after. You mentioned Muse and how they were just using 2 guitars, bass, drums etc..and this in my opinion, is a good representation of that considering how stripped down my version of this song is right now.

It's 2 guitars, synth bass, drums that I played on my V Drums kit using Steven Slate 4.0 and 2 more rhythm guitars that come in during the pre's and the chorus. If something like this is what you're after, let me know and I'll explain the process to you, ok? Here's the link to my unfinished mp3: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/DannyGorgeousNightmareMaster16.mp3

It's raw, so forgive me...but for as raw as it is, I think it came out pretty good at this point even when I compare it to the original. Once I add all the right stuff, tweak the mix a little and add some room so it doesn't sound as direct, this is going to sound pretty cool....at least that's what I'm hoping. :) But the guitar layers almost give you the impression that a synth was used if you listen close. Yet, the only synth is the farty bass sound. Now imagine some good synths over top of those guitars in a higher key like they did in theirs...it's going to build up really nice. See what you think...and like I said, if something like that is what you're after, I'll share how I got it. If I totally blew this and misinterprated what you were asking, please accept my apology for wasting your time brother.

-Danny

If Matt isn't interested I still am :)
 
 

Me too Alex!

Hey Danny, have not had a chance to listen to those samples yet as I'm at work but will when I get home.

That pretty much sounds like what I'm going for! So would love to hear what you have to say.

All of my choruses (primarily the spot I want the wall) have guitar - usually clean or maybe just a hint of grunge. I'm generally staying away from distorted guitars except for lead parts. But that's unrelated to this topic at hand! I do like the idea of single string distorted guitars in the upper end to fill that area if need by, but for the low stuff I'm generally trying to stay pretty clean. I then usually have either an organ (Dim Pro), piano (TruePiano) or some strings (Studio Instruments - Strings). Have not used it in a chorus yet, but maybe the E-Piano as well. All the midi parts I'm writing them in the appropriate octaves to fill out the appropriate frequency bands. Vocals are obviously centre of attention so not too concerned about what these guys are sounding like as such, as long as they are just doing their job to fill in the spaces appropriately.

One example I'm playing round with has a pretty bouncy piano part. Just hitting major chords to the beat of the drums. Guitar is doing the same thing. My keys span 3 octaves (not actually possible to play by one player). They take the low mids well. I have them panned L. Then two guitar parts. I'm using an Epiphone Standard and just recording one take on rhythm and one on treble. Rhythm goes slightly right and treble fairly hard right. It's tricky to balance out the panning on those low mids so I fill both the sides and centre. I imagine I might use some multiband panning if I need to so everything sits right, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. But any ideas on more effective ways to set up things so they sound balanced would be nice. I mean, I don't particularly want to be needing 5 guitars, but if that's what it takes, I'll do it! I feel if you are layering too much things might start going backwards.

Anywho, rambling again as usual... Please continue!

Trimph1, I actually liked that one! The really simple drone sound I feel would work better for me. I listened to the Alien one too and at least for my music, the youtube sample I heard wouldn't work at all, but I didn't have a chance to fully see what it can do. Is it really versatile and can you get the similar sounds to trimph1's droner with it if you wanted to?

I just downloaded the player tonight. I'll give it a whirl in the morning!

mattplaysguitar


Hey Danny, have not had a chance to listen to those samples yet as I'm at work but will when I get home.

That pretty much sounds like what I'm going for! So would love to hear what you have to say.

All of my choruses (primarily the spot I want the wall) have guitar - usually clean or maybe just a hint of grunge. I'm generally staying away from distorted guitars except for lead parts. But that's unrelated to this topic at hand! I do like the idea of single string distorted guitars in the upper end to fill that area if need by, but for the low stuff I'm generally trying to stay pretty clean. I then usually have either an organ (Dim Pro), piano (TruePiano) or some strings (Studio Instruments - Strings). Have not used it in a chorus yet, but maybe the E-Piano as well. All the midi parts I'm writing them in the appropriate octaves to fill out the appropriate frequency bands. Vocals are obviously centre of attention so not too concerned about what these guys are sounding like as such, as long as they are just doing their job to fill in the spaces appropriately.

One example I'm playing round with has a pretty bouncy piano part. Just hitting major chords to the beat of the drums. Guitar is doing the same thing. My keys span 3 octaves (not actually possible to play by one player). They take the low mids well. I have them panned L. Then two guitar parts. I'm using an Epiphone Standard and just recording one take on rhythm and one on treble. Rhythm goes slightly right and treble fairly hard right. It's tricky to balance out the panning on those low mids so I fill both the sides and centre. I imagine I might use some multiband panning if I need to so everything sits right, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. But any ideas on more effective ways to set up things so they sound balanced would be nice. I mean, I don't particularly want to be needing 5 guitars, but if that's what it takes, I'll do it! I feel if you are layering too much things might start going backwards.

Anywho, rambling again as usual... Please continue!

Trimph1, I actually liked that one! The really simple drone sound I feel would work better for me. I listened to the Alien one too and at least for my music, the youtube sample I heard wouldn't work at all, but I didn't have a chance to fully see what it can do. Is it really versatile and can you get the similar sounds to trimph1's droner with it if you wanted to?

Actually Matt, it's probably not what you're going for entirely because what I'm using in my examples is heavily driven guitars where you've noted more of a clean thing being what you're after and keeping the driven guitars for lead passages. What I've offered here isn't gonna cut it for you I don't think.
 
I can tell you this though....if you are building a wall of sound and it will primarily be guitars, the key there is different guitars, amps, sounds and panning, chord inversions (you know like the other half of a chord being higher or lower) and of course different eq curves, maybe more of a pre-delay in a room verb on a group of guitars, a haas effect, dual haas effect where you flip flop the delays on the other guitars, a stereo chorus on a guitar or one half of the stereo chorus sent to one guitar, the other half sent to another independently played guitar, add some keyboard textures with a little grit if need be and just make sure you pan for space while filling in the gaps. Those are definitely the places *I* would start if I were going for the stuff you've mentioned. Can you supply a sample of what you're talking about so I don't totally mess up your thread with the wrong stuff? LOL!
 
Alex & Jonesey: I know Matt wouldn't mind if I shared that stuff...but let me see if it's even in the right ballpark so I don't type a novel that has nothing to do with his questions. Worst case scenario, I can always reply to you guys privately. :)
 
-Danny