As the title implies...

I'm looking for examples of this as I'm considering mucking around with this at some point. I know about the Mesa dual Recto...any others out there?

Danny will know

trimph1


As the title implies...

I'm looking for examples of this as I'm considering mucking around with this at some point. I know about the Mesa dual Recto...any others out there?

Distorted guitars that are usually not compressed at the source and usually aren't favoring mids. They get compressed after they are recorded. Those examples I posted in Matt's thread (minus the blues licks I played) will give you a good idea.
 
Back in the 80's when extreme gain (as opposed to drive in the 60's and 70's) was in a sound, it was very processed at the source. Compression, effects, all sorts of gizmos were used to process the tones. These days, there is less mid range in guitar tones making them have a bit more of an edge to them without the compression at the source which tightened things up in a different way. When we used compression in the 80's, it was to sculpt a tone and add to the coloration. When they use it today post print, it's to squash the heck out of it.
 
Today's tones also sport more gain due to how pre-amps in amplifiers have evolved. When you bought an amp in the 80's or earlier, if it had loads of gain is was loose gain that would "whoomf". A very open type of sound that was just loose and well, kinda flabby and weird sounding. So we had to tighten them up with compression and use a few effects to further boost the amp's pre-amp section in a good way. Some amps from the 80's and earlier had such bad pre-amp gain we had to use the clean channel of the amp and run our distortions and compressors there instead. This of course lead to a raspy sound most times.
 
But today, with amps like Mesa Dual Rectum Fryer, Bogner, Cornford, Peavey, Engl etc, the gain sections have been modded to where it's a much tighter gain that allows you to use more without getting that loose, whoomfing sound we used to get. You don't even need a stomp box to further condition or color the tone unless you are looking for something specific. Sustain has also been increased to where we don't have to crank an amp today as loud as we would have to crank an old plexi or Fender to get sustain. Or for example, that Angus Young sound from AC/DC. That's a cranked amp utilizing the power tubes more than the pre-amp section. Some old school guys prefer that tone....but the problem is, you have to go so loud to get it, it's really not worth sacrificing your hearing or the hearing of your audience.
 
The fix for that was to buy a smaller amp and crank it all the way up. Though this is a good fix, sometimes it wouldn't be loud enough. So they created tools like "power soak" or "power brake" to allow you to run your amp at a lower volume yet get the same sound it would get if you made it so loud a bird would explode if it flew near your cab. LOL!
 
The downside with those tools was/is...sometimes they would blow up your amp. Some people had great results, others had constant repairs. But today, all that stuff is behind us and you have the option of using less gain and more volume to get the output tube saturation sound, or less volume and more pre-amp gain to get more of today's high gain, modern rock or metal sounds without going so loud.
 
Hope that explains it trimph. :)
 
-Danny

Great stuff there Danni!! It certainly works for this puppy!!

trimph, here's another example of what *I* like to call modern high gain. I do these little test/lab work files from time to time...and well, this one has a story, but I'll spare you as it's not important...lol...but anyway, when we AREN'T layering and set ourselves up for a basic two guitar attack for rhythm, you would work things differently because you don't have the other guitar layers to worry about. This allows you to concentrate on the main guitars and make them really thrust out in the mix. This here is just two guitars recorded independently...no bells or whistles with HAAS or anything. Just compression and the impulse squash. This is my guitar tube pre-amp right into my console via XLR. This thing gets a sick amount of gain if I need it and some pretty cool clean sounds to boot. But I like this example as a good modern gain type tone. It's a little too compressed via limiter, but that was one of the purposes of this little test for me. I was trying to see how far I could push a limiter I was testing at the time. :)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/DanziTest2_16Master.mp3

-Danny

With that, I think I've polluted these forums enough for one day...lol...off to bed for a few hours. :)

i use a weber mass lite, on my vintage mesa boogie mark2b.

i've been using it for about 5 years now, works great.

i can find the sweet spot of the amp (which for me, is right between the preamp-side gain capability, and the power amp-side of saturation)...
then I control the actual volume that i monitor that sound at. it is infinitely variable, with my setup.


using ATTENUATORS is a bit of a voodoo science...
and not something i'd just dive into if i were you, unless you knew ALOT about gain structure in tube amps, and also a very intimate knowledge of exactly WHERE the sweet spots exist on your particular amp.

every amp has a sweet spot.

mine has exactly 4.

LOL

point is, some amps respond well to this, some don't.

i can get 'HIGH GAIN' tones and grind out of my amp very easily, but i do not like those tones.

i tend to go for something a little more pure, i look for natural drive from the amp for touch sensitivity, and THEN boost with pedals, for a hotter signal, but not much more.
 
 
 


there are wonderful stomp boxes out there that approximate HIGH GAIN tones very easily....

but if you are a purist, you will want to find your signature tone using an amp, and get MOST of your tone with just that....
then augment that with other minor tweaks, just to dial in exactly what you are looking for.


i can think of very few guitar players that i really dig, that get their tones with just a guitar and amp.
it is the science of electronics that drives you to try combinations of things to find 'just the right tone'.



if you are not naturally a HIGH GAIN type player, you'll find that a high gain setup will feel unnatural to you.

me, i think sheer volume is more potent, than gain.
for me, i know it is.

but you can't always crank that way......



i also find a lot of HIGH GAIN amplifiers, sound anemic and weak when playing at bedroom volumes....
for recording, that's no good.
 
 


you'd be better off finding a very low wattage, but well-executed amp design for gain.
there are a plethora of wonderful low wattage, high gain designs out there.
unless you need a large setup for live work, a small amp in the one watt to 15 watts is plenty for recording.

short list of high watt high gain

blackstar series one
diamond nitrox
diezel vh4
engl powerball
framus cobra
fryette pitbull
hughes and kettner coreblade
krank 1980
boogie dual
orange rockerverb
soldano avenger
bogner uberschall
mesa stiletto
bogner xtc



short list of LOW watt HIGH gain
orange tiny terror
krank rev jr
reeves custom 10hg
marshall hand wired series
egnator rebel
mesa express
mesa transatlantic series
mesa MINI Rectifier
ceriatone trainwreck clone

My Carvin V3 is a high gain amp. I run the gain around 6-7 and that is still a lot of distortion. I find this amp has to be loud to sound its best so I made an attenuator and that helps considerably.

batsbrew


short list of high watt high gain

blackstar series one
diamond nitrox
diezel vh4
engl powerball
framus cobra
fryette pitbull
hughes and kettner coreblade
krank 1980
boogie dual
orange rockerverb
soldano avenger
bogner uberschall
mesa stiletto
bogner xtc



short list of LOW watt HIGH gain
orange tiny terror
krank rev jr
reeves custom 10hg
marshall hand wired series
egnator rebel
mesa express
mesa transatlantic series
mesa MINI Rectifier
ceriatone trainwreck clone

That is one whale of a list to start from!!


Thanks!!

Danny Danzi


trimph, here's another example of what *I* like to call modern high gain. I do these little test/lab work files from time to time...and well, this one has a story, but I'll spare you as it's not important...lol...but anyway, when we AREN'T layering and set ourselves up for a basic two guitar attack for rhythm, you would work things differently because you don't have the other guitar layers to worry about. This allows you to concentrate on the main guitars and make them really thrust out in the mix. This here is just two guitars recorded independently...no bells or whistles with HAAS or anything. Just compression and the impulse squash. This is my guitar tube pre-amp right into my console via XLR. This thing gets a sick amount of gain if I need it and some pretty cool clean sounds to boot. But I like this example as a good modern gain type tone. It's a little too compressed via limiter, but that was one of the purposes of this little test for me. I was trying to see how far I could push a limiter I was testing at the time. :)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/DanziTest2_16Master.mp3

-Danny

With that, I think I've polluted these forums enough for one day...lol...off to bed for a few hours. :)

I was listening to some of that earlier...wow!!!


You do not pollute these forums!! I'm going to be picking your brains for a few things yet!!