2012/06/25 07:04:43
trimph1
Now, I've actually figured out what Gain Staging and Volume is about...more by accident than anything else My question is why can't these things be explained better?!? 


Who makes the best tutorials for this kind of thing?
2012/06/25 07:32:48
mattplaysguitar

The below is how I plan to work when I start mixing my album (4-6 months away).

Start by using trim to get all tracks to the same RMS value, ensuring there are no overs. Then every single plug I use along the way has the volume out matched so if I bypass it, there is no perceivable change in volume. All level adjustments are done with the final volume. This way I can set a quick volume, including quick automation if needed, then as I apply compression and eq and other processes, the volume does not change in the mix so everything stays nice and happy.
Remembering that bass plays a big role in the overall volume, so I'd like to set that level first. I'm still yet to determine the exact RMS value I'll use, but I'll choose one which gives me plenty of headroom. Then it stays fixed. Every level is adjusted around it. I then determine some monitoring level spots on my interface. This way I can ensure that every song I mix should be at the same volume. As I progress, I expect to get a few more RMS numbers going so I can try to have pretty even mixing levels between songs, then tweak as required.

There would be similarities there in the K-System I think (monitoring levels) but I need to read up over that one again cause I can't remember the complete workings of it.

I hope using the above technique should allow pretty consistent levels between songs. I'll probably start by setting the gain levels with respect to the chorus, or typical loudest section so everything can be based on that. Mixing like this will hopefully make mastering the album much easier as there should be reasonable uniformity between tracks just from mixing.


Another thing aside from the above, I usually don't like to let me volume go over 0dB during early mixing so might start initial balancing by using the trim. This gives me plenty of flexibility later on to boost up to 6dB if needed. You don't want to be adjusting the trim later on in the mix as it's going to screw with your compressor settings. Trim stuff should all be done at the start. You may want to have the levels tightly set initially with the trim so that you have that extra resolution when fine tuning things later on. Moving your mouse ±1 dB in the -6dB range is easy to do, but if you have your volume down to -20dB, it's getting a bit fine and you might need to type things in potentially. Won't affect things sound wise, but might make life easier if you keep it in mind.
2012/06/25 07:44:33
trimph1
Yeah..that sounds like something I need to keep in mind..I don't need shocks to the system anymore than I already got...saved your post.
2012/06/25 08:30:31
mattplaysguitar
I'm sure there are a ton of ways of working and every person will do things a little differently. I guess it's all about seeing how other people work and putting it all together to devise a way which works best for you. I'll be interested to see how others approach it. I used to just 'wing it', but I like the idea I have been developing above over the last few months. I'm looking forward to trying it out in the future and seeing how well it works!
2012/06/25 09:26:04
Jeff Evans
It is important to distinguish between peak and rms values of any signal. To get gain staging correct you need to know about both, not just one. Most DAW's provide good peak indication devices but are poor in the rms area. You need VU meters to show rms values more readily. Real ones are best but if you cannot get them or use them there are some great plug in alternatives.

We know that in order to avoid clipping and getting too close to 0dB FS we need to work at some ref level down from that. K system suggests 3 ref levels -12, -14 and  -20 db FS. What ever you choose as a ref level you need the VU meter to show 0 dB VU when the rms signal is down at the ref level. This is where any rms indicators that DAW's provide are useless. Because if you are down at say -20 db then the rms level is very low on the meter scale (in Sonar case 3 db even lower than that) hence they are hard to read down so low on a meter scale. 

If you track correctly at your ref level using a VU meter then all your tracks are already at the correct rms levels. If not you can check each track one by one with the VU to see where it sits in relation to your chosen ref level. Use your trim controls to either add or subtract gain accordingly. 

The loudest parts of the song should only just reach 0dB VU either on the buses or the masterbuss. You can still get the perfect mix and get your buses just hitting 0dB VU and your masterbuss also just hitting 0dB VU on the loudest parts of the music. Softer sections will drop below that but they are supposed to.

If you work this way you will have perfect consistency level wise between all your songs and mastering is also much easier as well. Also you will never even come close to clipping 0dB FS (anywhere on tracks or buses) because of the headroom that you have built in by choosing the K system ref level that you have. (Note:  you can still clip plugins peak wise on tracks and buses and still maintain a correct rms level so use the input and output controls on your plugins to avoid peak clipping and fine tune for correct rms levels) I work at either K-14 for a lot of general work and K-20 for the highest quality and most transient sound. Both have their merits. K-14 means less push up level wise during the mastering stage to reach the final mastered loud rms level.  K-20 just means you have got further to come up to achieve the same final mastered level. But it also means you have got this beautiful pristine transient version of your mix with 20 dB of headroom if you ever need to go backwards to that. 

You see peak indicators are great at keeping peak levels consistent on tracks and busses and that is what most of you are doing, but your rms levels are all over the place. That is why people have problems with gain staging and levels getting out of control. VU meters keep rms levels consistent on tracks and busses and the peak levels are varying. This is how it was with analog in the old days. We did not worry about peaks because the headroom built into all the analog stages took care of the peaks. But with digital we have obsessed about peaks (rightly so too) and dropped the VU meter in favour of peak indicators. You really need both. Using a K system approach also takes care of the peaks due to the headroom we decide to use in choosing our ref level.

The secret to perfect gain staging is using VU meters. Without them you are floundering in the dark. Most people don't use them and that is why most are floundering in the dark not getting their gain staging correct, clipping tracks and busses everywhere and wondering why their levels are all over the place. If you get a good result without them, you are only doing it by luck. As I have said many times all serious mixing consoles have them and so does every mastering engineer worth their salt as well. 

K system is also about consistent monitoring levels in your control room at the chosen ref level. I like using 85 dB SPL. (C weighting, music too NOT pink noise!) Some say that is too loud but I disagree. I think it is a great volume. And a volume where the ear is at its best (if you can call it that) frequency response wise. If you monitor for too long either above or below 85 dB SPL you will be making incorrect mix decisions. 

There are plugins that can do great VU metering. BlueCat meter is very good.
http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_DPeakMeterPro/

There are some free ones too but they don't look like a normal VU meter but the bar graph concept as per the BlueCat. But the BlueCat is a classy display though.

But if you want a VST that looks like a real VU meter the Klanghelm meters are also excellent.
http://www.klanghelm.com/VUMT.html

The Klang meters are cheap and they can be set for a very accurate representation of a real VU ballistic. The settings are not like that standard, I have done some extensive testing and got the perfect settings that set up a ballistic very similar to my real VU's which are expensive and very very good.

Many of you are getting great results and mixes without VU meters that is for sure, but if you got into them and really started using them your results would be even better, that is what I believe anyway.  Because I am old I have come from the analog era with lots of VU's into the digital era but I have still maintained the use of VU's right through both systems and because of it some aspects of my production just have not changed at all from analog to digital and maintained an amazing sense of consistency. But in other aspects digital is way better, no noise and great transients that analog just could never produce as well.

Sorry for the long post, it is almost as long as a Danny post LOL!  But then again I don't think I could ever out do Danny in that respect!
2012/06/25 09:47:48
trimph1
Yeah..I had the sneaking sus p i c ion that I was missing something here


Now, since I have no actual VU meters here which VST would be good for this?
2012/06/25 10:29:13
Bristol_Jonesey
I've got Blue Cat's Digital Peak Meter Pro which is the one recommended by Jeff in his previous post.

Does exactly what it says on the tin, and more.

Well worth the expense.
2012/06/25 10:30:42
Bristol_Jonesey
Sorry - duplicated
2012/06/25 10:51:57
Jeff Evans
The only thing I find a bit weird now about the BlueCat meter is there is no actual serious marking at 0dB VU but rather a change in colour only. (the nearest marking is at either -2dB and +2 dB) I know it might be nit picking but I find it harder to read in some ways compared to the Klang meters which have a definite 0dB VU mark and it is nice and clear and obvious. 

But the BlueCat as Bristol says does a lot more as well and it is a nice meter too. I am little biased now toward the Klang meter because it visually looks like a real VU and can be set to behave like one too. 
2012/06/25 17:18:14
Sonico
Hi Jeff,

I find your comments very interesting, but I can't figure how to use the k-14 reference on drums, I mean if I try to get the kick drum or snare drum to read 0 dB VU, the peaks are going to be very high. 
Am I misunderstanding something? I hope you can give me some light on that matter

Thanks 
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