My advice, if you want to master LCR mixing, is to pan everything to either the left, center, or right.

gotcha John T, thanks for your help!

droddey


My advice, if you want to master LCR mixing, is to pan everything to either the left, center, or right.

That's the crux of it right there.  Basically it means you are only using those three positions, no ifs, buts, or maybes.

Personally I don't like it as the finished article but I'll sometimes use it as an interim step.  So generally and simplistically I'll eq everything to cure frequency overlaps with everything centered and get the levels working then I'll work out what's going R and L pan those and re check the overall balance, so the basic LCR set up is working right.

From there I'll generally work out what can be moved back in from the extremes and refine the stereo field from there so I'm not strictly using LCR as the final mix but rather sometimes using it as a stage toward getting where I want to be.

+1 ... its almost impossible for me to get true LCR panning

... I'm a great fan of it and employ it in sections more than songs.

Center: Vocals, Kick, Bass, reverbs
100% L/R: All else, pads, snares, blah blah, delays, Haas delays, etc.

Interestingly, the sweet spot Center is an illusion, iirc.

L-R panning vs. LCR panning was employed by stereo pioneers, iirc.

Many complain that a song sounds dis-associated from LCR panning ... and/or that instruments stand out as a result.  But the complaint is made by purists, and rarely by pop-listeners.

Any of you care to elaborate more?

I don't see any reason to use it nowadays... Back in the day (correct me if I'm wrong) when they first came up with the concept of stereo it was what they used as panning as we know it had not been developed, but after that... :S Why would people use it any more?... I usually dislike a 100% pan unless it's specifically for an effect or for multitracked guitar layers. Or overheads (or any other stereo recording), but that's different. But 100% LCR on a song, it's a bit too limiting in my opinion.

Well, the reason to use it, or at least to think about it a bit, is because "panning as we know it" is kind of mythical. You actually can't pan very precisely. You have Left, Right, Centre and whole heap of "kind of over there, sort of, depending on this or that factor" positions. That can be useful, of course. But I think the reason why people often go gaga for LCR when they first start using it is simply because they start getting mixes that aren't made up of a completely wishy washy stereo image, which is what you'll get if you try to go for the (non-existent) precise positioning that a pan pot appears to offer. Ultimately, I think most non-dogmatic people will settle on a combination of hard pans and less defined positions, according to the needs of the song. But LCR is definitely worth tinkering with, and understanding.

Here's something that doesn't get thought about enough, when obsessing over the imaginary precise stereo landscape: almost nobody has "20:20" hearing. So even if stereo speakers could do that thing that they actually can't do, you'd still be hosed for precise stereo.

Yeah I get that, but I LIKE that about it! I still think it's reasonably defined in a good listening environment and if it's not a good listening environment, it's not a good listening environment so who cares!

Still, I'm sure it could teach you some things about balance. If the left and right sound balanced (frequency wise) in LCR, then it's going to also sound good when you bring back the pans. If you already have pretty close panning going on, balance issues may not be so obvious.

I'll try it out for fun, but I can't imagine I'd ever do a song in it. But that's just me!

i experimented with some strict LCR panning on my 'magic' album.

but eventually, as i listen to the final mixes, i let certain elements drift back towards center a bit.

i've really focused on the mix elements of a lot of 'classic rock' mixes, and the ones i like the best, seem to be mostly LCR.

that said, a lot of times, a hard panned guitar part, will have a reverb hard panned to the opposite side, so that there is never really true separation between the sound across the stereo field.

but man, does LCR clear up a cluttered mix.

i mean, seriously, if you use dry tracks, and get your balances correct (this doesn't mean numbers of tracks a side, or volumes, but EQ especially!), it is the fastest way to get to the cleanest mix.

arrangments have a lot to do with the success of a LCR mix.

also, i find that putting overheads purely 100% left and right, does not sound good.
does not sound natural.

seems to me that 50% left and right, seems just right.
with toms panning across the same area, and snares and kicks dead center.


but there is so much that can be done with effect sends and opposite panning, and all that.


here is an excellent post with links, on the subject of LCR


http://thewombforums.com/showthread.php?t=10454

I'll often start mixing and go to LCR on acoustic (as opposed to synthetic) songs.  As pointed out above, it can clear up a mix.  But like Bat I'll work my way back to center for the panned stuff.  Not all the way, but toward 50% until it sounds right or starts to get lost again.

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