• Techniques
  • ARC System Measurement for Studio 'Corrective Monitoring' (p.2)
2011/06/25 22:38:43
Danny Danzi
jamescollins


Danny, thanks so much for the recommendation, really appreciate it! I had no idea you even knew I was in Perth! And congrats - to have an international reputation is no small achievement. If this guy can afford to get you out, you'll have a blast - he's obviously very serious about making a killer record. Of course, if you come please do get in touch, both Greenwood and Beechboro are not far from where I live. I'll have a few beers ready for you...

Philip, you absolutely MUST take the measurements using a stand! As Danny has mentioned in other threads, accuracy is extremely important when taking measurements with the ARC system - results can vary hugely. You really can't be too careful here. I spent half a day setting up my measurement points, using a plum bob and rule. I marked each measurement point on a large bit of cardboard, which is now my template, so I don't have to re-measure every time. If your measurement points are just 'rough enough' then I'd say there's a fairly strong chance that ARC will make the monitoring situation worse.

You're quite welcome, James. I just hope he calls you as it is my belief you have all the right stuff for him and are about what, an hour away maybe? I think Jeff is on the other side of the country and this guy wants a studio in driving distance that isn't too far from him. But anyone I talk to in Oz, I'll always direct to you guys. :)
 
Yeah I knew you were in Perth. I'm a sneaky lil bugga and click on every link I see in someone's signature just so I can learn a little more about the person behind the text. :) I enjoyed the samples of the tunes you had up as well as the gear you had. You're right in your description, there probably aren't too many studio's in Perth running the stuff you have there. Quite a few guys I know have some decent home studio's over there in Perth, but most of them spent more money on room tuning, their modded pc's and software over having the good front end hardware stuff.
 
That beer sounds pretty good, but that Glenlivet is more my drink! Hahaha...one of the best scotch whiskeys of all time...if in fact that's the same stuff we get over here. :) I have quite a few great friends scattered about in Oz and hopefully some work will come out of it. Most of the stuff is up in the air at the moment, but hopefully it will pan out.
 
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread Philip! :) Back to your new corrections with the boom stand. Hahaha! :) 
2011/06/26 16:19:50
Philip
James and Danny,

I'm glad Providence is working for you guys.

1) I'll redo measurements with painstaking exactness (boomstand, tape-measure, and plumbing bob (or some leveling device) -- haha!  Unfortunately (due to my 6 22"-computer display-monitors), my sweet spot is not perfectly equilaterally located in the listening triangle.

2) I suppose I should borrow my stereo sub (if that seems OK with you guys) (AKA, instead of buying another one ... since the <80 Hz/cycles are large waveforms and smeared, IIRC),

... and try to get it away from the wall (and/or allow it as a guest chair or guitar chair or something -- LOL).
2011/06/27 12:16:31
DeeringAmps
To All,
Just installed ARC on my DAW (see desc in sig below).
Downloaded 1.3.1 (today) and installed.
Fired ARC up and ran a "quick" test in my office.
NO ISSUES saving the test file. Danny correct me if I'm wrong, but you have had issues saving the test in v1.3.1; right?
I fired up 8.5.3x64 and put ARC on the Master buss; all good.
Saved the project and re-opened; NO issues, works perfectly.
Fired up X1(xyz) x32 and opened the project; NO issues.
Did a cold boot of Windows and opened the project in 8.5 and X1 again, ARC comes up just as it should and works flawlessly right from the get go.
That's how its working here with a fresh install of ARC 1.3.1 on Win 7x64.
HTH
YMMV
PS: the IK installer wants to put the x64 dll in "Programs\vstplugins", I always change that to "Programs\Cakewalk\vstplugins".
I'm pretty sure that the x64 T-Racks 3 install went the same way, just be sure you add "Programs\vstplugins" to your scan paths if you don't change that when installing...
2011/06/27 14:21:54
Danny Danzi
DeeringAmps


To All,
Just installed ARC on my DAW (see desc in sig below).
Downloaded 1.3.1 (today) and installed.
Fired ARC up and ran a "quick" test in my office.
NO ISSUES saving the test file. Danny correct me if I'm wrong, but you have had issues saving the test in v1.3.1; right?
I fired up 8.5.3x64 and put ARC on the Master buss; all good.
Saved the project and re-opened; NO issues, works perfectly.
Fired up X1(xyz) x32 and opened the project; NO issues.
Did a cold boot of Windows and opened the project in 8.5 and X1 again, ARC comes up just as it should and works flawlessly right from the get go.
That's how its working here with a fresh install of ARC 1.3.1 on Win 7x64.
HTH
YMMV
PS: the IK installer wants to put the x64 dll in "Programs\vstplugins", I always change that to "Programs\Cakewalk\vstplugins".
I'm pretty sure that the x64 T-Racks 3 install went the same way, just be sure you add "Programs\vstplugins" to your scan paths if you don't change that when installing...

Hi Tom,
 
Thanks for the info! The version before 1.3.1 crashed upon a correction save, but that was when I was using Win XP. The versions before 1.3.1 also would not save the preset of the plug when saved inside of Sonar. It looks as though things are working perfectly for you...that's great to hear! You're sure when you open Sonar that it is playing the correction, right?
 
See this gets a bit weird. It will boot up in a saved Sonar project and have the right correction showing (at least for me, but I've not tried 1.3.1 yet)  but when you play back and press the orange light to disable it, if it is not working properly, you will hear no changes in your correction. It shows as loaded and all is well, it just hasn't played back right unless I reload the correction file inside ARC. If you are hearing a difference upon opening a project and toggling the orange button off and on, you are working correctly. If there is no change while pressing the button other than a click/pop and no major change in sound, it's still broken. Thanks Tom...I hope ARC was everything I said it was. :)
2011/06/27 16:13:49
DeeringAmps
Danny,
The "corrected" project sounds much different, so YES, I am sure its working.
Just re-booted to verify.
I'll just have to learn to turn ARC off when I export.

I'm wondering if the clean install has anything to do with the save and settings issues?

Are you running the sub off its own analog out? IF so do you EQ that output, meaning put a low-pass on it?

Thanks
2011/06/27 18:20:50
Beagle
Danny - I have had the same experience as Tom.  and when by-passing it is very obvious that it has been correcting my low end because it sounds like I no longer have a low end (relatively) when I enable ARC.

I had no problems with saving the test file (I made 25 measurements for my first test).  I didn't try it in 8.5.3, but in X1 64bit it has been working fine since I installed it.
2011/06/27 23:12:17
Philip
Tom, Beag, Danny,

Thanks for chiming again.

I re-did ARC measurements with exquisite precision today ... (without a sub yet though since I may have to by a small mixer to split the stereo signal from my RME ff400)

I even placed my chair with a coat on it to mimic moi ... AKA, the mixer's chair in below the mic boom for every measurement.  I kept my measurements within about 2 square feet.

... results were quite similar, except for the fact that I put all my Adam's Monitor knobs on flat.

Thanks again all for chiming and helping one another.
2011/06/28 09:41:08
Danny Danzi
DeeringAmps


Danny,
The "corrected" project sounds much different, so YES, I am sure its working.
Just re-booted to verify.
I'll just have to learn to turn ARC off when I export.

I'm wondering if the clean install has anything to do with the save and settings issues?

Are you running the sub off its own analog out? IF so do you EQ that output, meaning put a low-pass on it?

Thanks
Hi Tom,
 
It must be working correctly then and I can probably move over to 1.3.1. I'll explain my situation. I had a box running XP and always updated ARC each time they updated it. On one of the updates, it would save in my Sonar project but wouldn't play the correction as I mentioned. I reverted to an older version and I was fixed.
 
Another new version came out and I read something about "if you use this new version, you should do a re-correction of your room since we have made some fixes to the correction procedure." So, I saved my old corrections, but downloaded and installed the latest ARC and redid my room corrections. When I was done the correction and went to save what had taken me an hour, it crashed on me. I tried it again, and it crashed on me again at the end. Later in that week, a bud of mine who had purchased ARC called me and said "dude, I can't make it save the correction file...it crashes on me every time!"
 
So we then found out that this was a problem and went back a version or two and we were all fixed up. Now, the pc I mentioned to you above died about a year ago. I had Jim Roseberry build me a box running Win 7 x64. The latest ARC version during that time last year, I didn't try to do a correction with because all my corrections were done already and backed up. So all I had to do was load them into the ARC folder upon install. When ARC was loaded and my correction was loaded, it worked fine. I saved the project with ARC in the bus, and shut down Sonar. Sonar 8.5 32 bit by the way. When the project was re-opened, I noticed it sounded funny....the sound of uncorrected monitors. I double click ARC that's already on the bus, it shows the right correction, is enabled, but it clicking the orange button doesn't change the sound at all. Reload the correction from the preset menu, it works, save the project, reopen, it's not working again. So I knew this was still not fixed and went back to 1.1.1 I believe and I've been there ever since. I'll have to try this new one and see if it works for me. I'm just afraid to mess with things. I've been fortunate that just reverting back has always helped fix my problem. I'm just afraid that one of these times, it's gonna screw me over and I just can't afford to take that chance with the amount of work I do.
 
As for the sub, I have it routed into a hardware controller that allows all the speakers that pass through the unit to have the sub play along with them. There's a dedicated sub button on the hardware controller that allows me to enable or disable it. I don't use any channels for it. My Adam monitors go into the sub, the sub into this monitor controller box, and then all other monitors go into the box and the sub will play along with any of them that are selected. ARC was used to correct them all with the sub being on and off.
Beagle


Danny - I have had the same experience as Tom.  and when by-passing it is very obvious that it has been correcting my low end because it sounds like I no longer have a low end (relatively) when I enable ARC.

I had no problems with saving the test file (I made 25 measurements for my first test).  I didn't try it in 8.5.3, but in X1 64bit it has been working fine since I installed it.

Glad it's working for you Reece. Yeah, if this thing wasn't working, you would hear the sound of your old monitors while ARC was enabled...and pressing the button on and off would not change anything. If you are hearing a difference upon opening a saved Sonar project where toggling the plug or the orange button on and off makes a huge difference in sound, you are working properly. You like it so far?
 
-Danny
2011/06/28 09:45:45
Beagle
yep - huge difference in sound when toggling on and off.

do I like it?  I am assuming that I will.  I don't yet have a finished project using it for mixing.  once I do and I listen to it on other mediums and have feedback from others then I'll know more about whether I like it or not!

I know it's a BIG difference with and without it in the low end!
2011/06/28 09:57:59
DeeringAmps
Danny,
Thanks for the update. After I asked the sub question it dawned on me that a separate out wouldn't work, as ARC wouldn't know it was there during testing. I'm looking at the Adam Sub8 to go with my A7's.
I'm religious about using the Win 7 image function.
I never update anything without burning an image first.
I've only had to do this once on my StudioCat, (revert to a previous image I mean).
I've got 255 gigs of images, maybe I should delete a few...

Thanks again!
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