Reece: yeah it does take a bit to get used to. Then again, it depends on a few things.

1. How used to your system you are without ARC

2. How much it has changed things. If you find that you are forcing yourself to like it, it may not be a bad idea to do a re-correct. All my monitors were so off with my room, the change was needed on my end and made a difference so huge I didn't need to ever hear the uncorrected sounds again. LOL! So for me, looking back on it now, it took me about an hour to get used to it. :)

Tom: Not a problem. Yeah that sub 8 is great...you'll dig it. However, if ARC did a great job for you, you may not even need it. As I had mentioned, I did the corrections with and without the sub. ARC did such a good job, I really only need the sub for my NS-10's. But I leave it on for everything. The tests I did without the sub were just done to see how good ARc would do...and to me, if I toggle with sub corrections with no sub corrections and kill the sub, I honestly cannot tell the difference whatsoever. That really amazed me to be honest.

I'll tell you what I do so I never forget to turn ARC off. Maybe this will help you. I use at least 2-3 different monitors on a mix. So that means 2-3 instances of ARC. I create a bus for each instance and each out of the bus goes to the main outs of my soundcard. From there, there is a master out where all my mix instruments go to. All instrument busses are sent to this master bus as well EXCEPT the ARC busses. The master bus out goes to the ARC bus of my choice and I press a button on my monitor controller to hear the monitors I want.

Now, when I'm all done and ready to export, I use a 2 step plan. I'm one of those guys that goes down the list in a Sonar project starting from top to bottom and selects each track that I want exported so that I never make a mistake. So step one for me is to select all the tracks that will be exported. I do this by double clicking one track and having them all hi-lite. From there, while holding control, I de-select the tracks that will not be in the export.

From there, since I'm now at the bottom of my tracks and the only other bottom is the master/bus section, I go to step 2 which is, mute all ARC busses and set the master out to my main soundcard out and I'm done. This has worked the best for me and I've never forgotten to kill ARC upon export. It may be extra steps, but I never forget this way. :)

-Danny

OK,
See if I have this right...
All buses to the MASTER (which I do now), then the MASTER to the ARC busses (assuming multiple monitors), always export to the MASTER (or from if you prefer).
Works for ME!

Last question:
Where are you picking up your headphone mixes? Do you just pull that off the mixer, after correction, or do you have a non-corrected out for the headphone amp?

I don't mix with the cans, but I do listen (track obviously), especially for little "noises" on anything that was mic'd.

Danny, really appreciate your help!

If you really want to double-check ARC, you can download the free Room EQ Wizard.  Analyze your room with REW before ARC, and then after ARC.  The post-ARC correction analysis should show you how much improvement (or not) was had.  Or it will show you if you need to re-do your ARC correction.

I guess when I can afford to spend on studio gear again I'll get some good near fields and then look at how the room is influencing sound. That will be a glorious day!

The room can influence sound in a big way. What a day it will be when you can hear the difference. :)

DeeringAmps


OK,
See if I have this right...
All buses to the MASTER (which I do now), then the MASTER to the ARC busses (assuming multiple monitors), always export to the MASTER (or from if you prefer).
Works for ME!

Last question:
Where are you picking up your headphone mixes? Do you just pull that off the mixer, after correction, or do you have a non-corrected out for the headphone amp?

I don't mix with the cans, but I do listen (track obviously), especially for little "noises" on anything that was mic'd.

Danny, really appreciate your help!

 
Yep, you got it Tom. It would look like the pic above. All other busses to the right of the NS-10 bus will be sent to either master or something else. For example, when I make a tom bus, I'll send the out of the tom bus to my drum bus, then the drum bus to the master. But all I have to do with ARC is click the drop down box there where it says "A7's" on the master bus, and it will give me an option for NS-10's. When I'm ready to export, mute A7 and NS-10 bus, change the A7 out in the master bus to Layla 1/2 and export.
 
As for my headphones, they are fedfrom the console and then to a headphone distribution amp. I have a few ways to route from there. I can just send the A7 out in the master bus to straight Layla 1/2 or I have individual headphone channels set up for each guy in the band via aux's so that they can hear what they want in their cans. :) Hope this helps.

Works for me.

Thanks Danny.

jamescollins


...setting up my measurement points, using a plum bob and rule. I marked each measurement point on a large bit of cardboard, which is now my template, so I don't have to re-measure every time.

That sounds like a good way to do it... accurate, efficient and consistent.


as far as mic stand type, it has been said in this thread to use a boom.
is it preferable to use a boom than a pedestal?
i think for moving the stand to the next location, that a pedestal would be more accurate for me, because my boom tends to spin or wiggle a bit at the main swivel point. also, the base has tri-pod legs that move when it's lifted. the pedestal seems to be much better in these regards. could it be the mic would receive less reflections from the boom stand?

M&B,

I agree, measurements are awkward and patience is required.

One possible advantage of using the boom is you may want to slide your producer chair underneath the boom-mic while making measurements, with a coat on the chair to simulate your shoulders (which is what I did).

OTOH, you could simulate the same humanoid reflections/absorptions using your method and doll-ing up the mic stand instead (perhaps a coat or sweater wrapped around the mic stand itself (beneath the mic).)

Also, instead of cardboard, I used masking tape on my carpet (which hopefully will hold for a while).
 
EDIT:
 
I must say, after mixing/listening with ARC CORRECTION ON ... and my ears adjust (a couple minutes)
 
... then when I turn ARC OFF there is my 'nasty phasey bass shrill' going on at about 120 Hz (apparently due to my desk reflections and/or resonations).
 
So I might assume ARC is Bass-trapping and phase-fixing at 120 Hz, a critical kick-drum and bass-guitar frequency.
 
I wonder how small a room ARC is good for.  Would it help car stereo monitors and sub(s) a bit?  Doubtless the tweeters in a car resonate like crazy against the dash and the floor speakers get dampened a bit with legs and baggage present.

Danny Danzi



ARC pre-prep:
 
First, make sure your monitors are set up in a perfect triangle and are as many feet apart from each other as they are from your favorite listening sweet spot. This is important. Next, make sure they are not up against the wall. I know that some of us don’t have a choice when in a bed room or spare room, but try to be as far away from the wall as possible without losing too much of your space.
 
If you have a sub: If you have a sub, listen to a CD you know and love. Mix enough of the sub in to where it just adds some low end thump. Be careful where you put the sub frequency selection. Most rooms are going to need 75Hz to 85Hz brought in using a sub. Sweep through the frequencies of your sub with the sub turned up pretty good so you can hear where it is accentuating. Once you find the place you like, back the sub level down so it just gives you nice low end and compliments the CD you are listening to, to where you say “yep, that sounds fantastic to me!” Also, make sure no settings on your monitors are being enhanced. Some monitors have eq controls on the back of them for boosting or cutting frequencies. Let ARC do all that...make sure these are flat. Now you are ready to work with ARC!
 
Read the manual really well and the steps it tells you to take, then keep all that in mind and do these steps. This is the best I can tell you about it and what worked for me below.
**Note**If you do your room corrections using the latest software and get an illegal operation when the software tries to save your room correction, it’s a bug that hasn’t been fixed yet. For me, here’s what worked and what you’ll need to do. If you do not get a crash when you do the room correction procedure, skip to part 1.
 
*Alt correction method is ONLY FOR THOSE WITH FAILED CORRECTION ATTEMPTS!*
 
Alternative correction method: First, make sure you are using ARC software 1.1 or version 1.1.1. Trust me on this, those versions work better for correction. I'm using 1.1.1 right now but did my corrections using 1.1 and earlier. We have a few issues that are known to IK at this time with the later versions of the software for *some* users. A few of those issues I have reported myself and am keeping in touch with IK on the situation. But there are no issues with the earlier versions I mentioned as far as doing the correction procedure. You can update to the latest after the correction if you want to. But I stick with 1.1.1 after my corrections. If you need to know why, just ask me and I’ll gladly tell you.

 
“The correction procedure”

1. Make sure your mic is set pointing straight up to where it is equal to your nose and ears (get a mirror or have someone else set it) and right in the center for your sweet spot which is placement 1. Set your latency as low as possible and listen to the test tones. If you hear any drop outs, raise the latency samples a little at a time until you have no drop-outs and the lowest latency possible. From there, run the test tones again and make sure the "K" in "OK" is flickering. No louder, no lower. This is important.

2. Next, (and this is SUPER important) make sure when you tap on the mic that you cannot hear it coming back through the speakers. You must disable input monitoring on your soundcard so that sound can send, yet not be heard. If you don’t know how to do this, neither do I because I use a mixing console, so I have other options that you may not.

3. Next, map out all your placements with tape and be as symmetrical as humanly possible. Try to do at least 18-20 symmetrical placements if you can. When you go to do the correction tests, move yourself out of the line of fire for each test burst. It gives you a few seconds to clear the area. That’s all there is to it. Once you get done the correction, do NOT toggle ARC off and on to hear what you had other than a few times when you first start using it. You have to get used to this sound and toggling back and forth will be the death of you. Also, if you don’t have a sub, you may want to get one because it really does help. Just my NS-10’s didn’t work too well with ARC...but once I used my sub and did the corrections, it all worked perfectly. That’s it....good luck! :)
 
One last thing. Since you have ARC, you are going to have to bring your tunes into Sonar or some program to listen to them properly. This to me is a complete downer and something that bothered me. I don't know how it was brought up, but I was talking on this forum and Zo comes out of nowhere while on a skiing trip or something and tells me about a VST plugin for Winamp that allows you to run ARC in it automatically! So years later, thank you Zo for bringing this to my attention!! (hugs my friend!)

The key to this, and how I run things here, is to run 2 media players. I'll explain the method to my madness as well as give you the plugin link. I run all mp3's using Win media. All eq's and performance enhancement disabled. Win Media player runs off of my Realtek soundcard which powers Altec Lansing 5.1 speakers not being used in surround mode. These speakers are the best pc speakers I have ever used and they allow me to monitor in a really good consumer environment. Ever so slightly bitey at about 6k, but nothing that sticks out to you as "uggh!"
 
For wave files, I use Winamp and run the plugin Zo told me about. This auto loads ARC permanently with the correction I want for my Adams or I can change it to my NS 10's, Genelecs, Tascam's, Tannoy or whatever else I want to listen through. I usually leave this set to my Adam A-7's though. If I want to play an mp3 through here, I can do that also. But having both players is kinda cool and I also have the file associations and icons looking different so I know in an instant that a wave file has the winamp icon, mp3's have the Windows media icon. It just keeps things tidier for me and allows me to toggle better. The link for the plugin loader for Winamp can be found here: 

http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/programs/winamp/

I was not able to use the latest version of the plug for Win 7 x64. So for me, it's 1.4 I believe...if not 1.4, it's 1.3. This will stop you from having to load CD's and other audio files into a DAW to hear it correctly using ARC. Hope this helps...best of luck! :)

-Danny

Danny - I set up ARC according to your procedure this weekend on my rebuilt system.  it sounds very very different from my original ARC setup.  Granted, I've added a small couch in my room since my initial measurements, but I don't think it would have changed that drastically.  before when I engaged ARC, it sounded like all of the bass left the building.  gone, nada.  I couldn't hear any bass unless I cranked up the EQ on the low end WAY up.  I had a worse time trying to mix with ARC on than I ever did with ARC off.
 
Now the changes seem much more sutble using your method.  I know the first time I was not meticulous about symmetry and I only took the minimum amount of measurements.  this weekend I took 30 measurements all symmetrical from the starting point. 
 
now the bass is still diminished (my graph shows riniging at ~150Hz, ~300Hz, ~600Hz) but it's not nearly what it was before.  I fully believe this will be much easier to mix on and I'm anxious to start a mix to see how it goes!
 
thanks!