trimph1


OK....now a question.

EQ ITB or outboard?

Or should that even be considered as important?

It's a matter of personal preference, trimph. Me personally? ITB at all times unless something adds a flavor OTB that I absolutely cannot get ITB. This is rare as I can just about always cop something and get close enough to where I'd not have to do anything destructively OTB. With the tools we have today, you should be able to come so close to something outboard that only you would notice. Whatever works for a person is what they should use. If I didn't have the UAD stuff I use, I would say it would be harder for me to come close to the outboard sound characteristics. Even some of the Waves stuff allows for really close sounds that will definitely work. :)
 
But there are guys that are hell-bent on a certain sound or a characteristic that is a necessity for them. So they need to use that outboard gear at all times. 7 out of 10 times, they will be the only one's that will notice this just like a guy that may be able to tell a difference between using and installing different guitar pups in his guitar through the same amp. We may notice a little something as he changes pups pups and provides examples, but not enough to where we may say "that's the one you need to use!" He, on the other hand, since he lives with this sound day in and day out, notices things that we may not.
 
There are sometimes little subtle differences in outboard gear that can really sway someone. This is totally credible and acceptable, but one has to weigh whether or not those differences are worth the extra coin you have to pay for that stuff. At the end of the day bro, if the difference you hear using outboard gear is for the better to you only, you go with it. :) These choices we make are what makes us....us. :)
 
-Danny

Jonbouy

some of these guys don't need to worry about post-eqing because they get the parts down just so during tracking.

Of course a good recording is a major part.  But it goes without saying a good capture is by it's very nature mean you've got more than you actually need in the context of a mix alongside other instruments.

Agreed. Those that have heard it will know that my pal Larry captures a beautiful sound from his Taylor acoustic, but it's very rare that I don't do some eq on it once the other instruments are in place.

For me, the top 3 would be eq, panning and fader levels/volume automation. I want to hear everything in the mix sitting in it's own pocket before I start adding reverb, delay etc.

Danny, I'd say definitely keep your posts as long as you feel they need to be to get your point across. I much prefer to read a good, meaty reply than a quick one sentence one which doesn't really capture all that's needed.

mattplaysguitar

John T


That thing of "record it right in the first place and it won't need EQ" is, I think, something of a fringe case, at best. It applies *occasionally* to *certain* kinds of material. But actually almost never applies to the majority of material. Try making even the simplest four piece rock band record that way, and you'll be pretty hosed. Anything with any electronic aspects, you're equally sunk. There are no silver bullets here. Yes, you have to record well. And then yes, you also have to mix well.

Agreed. Try and get that classic heavy thumping kick sound with a tight high end snap and no boxiness with just kick selection, tuning, mic selection and mic placement. Sure, you might get it sounding pretty nice and suitable for plenty of genres, but if you're going for that commercial processed sound, it just ain't gonna happen. These things will only get you so far and eq can take you those last few yards.




I was trying to post a picture of a different way of organising that I'm trying to do, but it wasn't working, so take 2. I did a quick sketch of where I'm trying to put everything at the moment. I've missed snare but the general layout I'm working on is below. First is verse, section is chorus. Anyone else work with this type of method?

Matt, 

First up, in regards to the Kick; not all kicks are equal and some are most definitely 'sampled' 


Seriously, I use at least two kicks; one that is a size 12 foot beating the heck out that poor VR skin, the other is the shell and honestly I do not use EQ at all on the kick or should I say.... kicks



About the Pan; 

It would be best to hear, to get a better perspective otherwise you might end up with half-arsed advise. 
Also, are those instruments (R/Guitar and Keys or synth) in the center playing all the time or have you arranged them so they occasionally fill in for vocal breaks/pauses?  
Point is and importantly; is the "Lead Vocal" (center), don't crowd it with keys and rhythm guitar if so? you may need to EQ/cut the guitar (rough guess; 1KHz to 5KHz) to make the L vocals clearer.



EQ is especially needed when the 'SONG' become crowded and if so? some instruments either need a cut (EQ) or that instrument removed completely. But with clever instrumentation-arrangements, panning along with good performances and sounds that work well together then EQ is not required so much.


As I explained, unless I actually 'hear' then please take all that I said about EQ with a grain of salt and possibly some hot chili peppers hahahaha (sorry man, I'm in a medicated state, actually you may want to discard my post and pretend you didn't see it)! 

I know medicated states...what you posted makes sense still...


.............................................................


A question, I have an idea of recording my wife doing a version of Gaudette ( as in a church ) .... if one was to use a reverb which reverb would be a good one for that?

mattplaysguitar


Danny, I'd say definitely keep your posts as long as you feel they need to be to get your point across. I much prefer to read a good, meaty reply than a quick one sentence one which doesn't really capture all that's needed.

It's great you feel that way Matt...thanks. I know my posts are long, but always with the best of intentions and as thorough as possible. I know some people will definitely get a few things out of them. I also never hold it against anyone that doesn't care to read me. :)

mattplaysguitar


Has anyone else used a similar method to drawing things up like this? I'm sure the triangle shape at the lower end is obviously due to lower frequencies not having much need for panning.

http://free-picture-hosting.net/?di=0MNP 

Matt, I meant to address this before and totally forgot. I don't do things like the sketch you drew, but I DO create sound stages that allow me to shoot for how things may be panned. If you're interested, I have no problems sharing one of my main illustrations I use in my teaching as well as providing an in depth explanation as to what it means and how I use it. It may be a long post though which I know you don't have a problem with, but...just letting you know any way. :) Maybe others would be interested in it as well?
 
-Danny

Oops! Sorry, unintentional Post! 

Dang it, either I'm having forum format issues or Danny has slipped me a blue pill. 

I need to have a nap! 

Have a great week everyone :) 

SongCraft

Oops! Sorry, unintentional Post! 

Dang it, either I'm having forum format issues or Danny has slipped me a blue pill. 

I need to have a nap! 

Have a great week everyone :) 

Ah might as well blame me...it's ok, I got big shoulders for a lil guy. :)
 

 
LOL! :)
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi

mattplaysguitar


Has anyone else used a similar method to drawing things up like this? I'm sure the triangle shape at the lower end is obviously due to lower frequencies not having much need for panning.

http://free-picture-hosting.net/?di=0MNP 

Matt, I meant to address this before and totally forgot. I don't do things like the sketch you drew, but I DO create sound stages that allow me to shoot for how things may be panned. If you're interested, I have no problems sharing one of my main illustrations I use in my teaching as well as providing an in depth explanation as to what it means and how I use it. It may be a long post though which I know you don't have a problem with, but...just letting you know any way. :) Maybe others would be interested in it as well?
 
-Danny

Yeah man, that would be brilliant to see when you get a chance. I like this idea of having some sort of planned soundscape and having a few options to choose from and see what works best for me would be great!




I did have a bit more of a play around today really carving things out a lot. Keeping in mind I'm still working with scratch recordings, it really helps me see a lot more how I need to record them to get them to fit in better. Trying to fit things in too I'm seeing what I can squeeze in and what is starting to get a little too cramped. It's really allowing my to kick things up a notch and start to get the sound I'm going for. Certainly going to take a bit of practise to really be able to hear what needs to be done, but it doesn't really seem like it's too hard with a bit of practise. It's amazing how you can pretty much highpass AND lowpass almost an entire instrument leaving a VERY SMALL narrow band and then it just sits in the mix so much better and sounds almost bigger than before cause you can turn it up more without it clouding everything else!


SongCraft - Some of those parts included in the image are infact only very short temporary fills in between the vocals to fill in the gaps. As there is a slight overlap with them starting and the end of the vocals, I feel they work best to eq away from the vocal, but maybe even volume and/or eq automation could let them sit in line with the vocal area to give them more prominence and play their part as a fill but without getting in the way of the vocal at any point - but now we are starting to get pretty technical.

My drums are also BFD (played on a MIDI kit but with a real set of cymbals for realism) and I have not made a decision yet on the snare and kick sounds I'm going to use so plenty of room to play around with that yet! But yeah, you're right, sampling in some synth kicks over real kicks I believe is pretty common practice these days. So many things you can do. One thing I did once which I really liked was to make a white noise track and trigger it to play with every snare hit. Adding it lightly creates this nice crunch sound without actually sounding electronic at all. Interesting one to try if your snare lacks a little spice.