Everyone works differently, but I just think that waiting until it's all done, and mixing a bunch of stuff that wasn't designed to work together is ultimately sub-optimal, sonically at least. I'm not trying to be engineer-anal about what is ultimately a creative process, but I think that if we are going to be serious about it we should try to hear in our heads what it's going to be, as much as we can. And that means not just sonically but the arrangement. It leads to a better result in the end, without nearly so much artificial manipulation in order to twist it into something that works.

It's difficult to do, and I wouldn't expect any of us here to be able to nail it most of the time, just due to lack of experience. But I just think it's a goal we should strive for. One way to approach it is to point everyone involved to an existing song that has the sort of sonic landscape that you would like to be in, so that everyone can have an idea of where their parts will live in the end, and can get their stuff closer to what it needs to sound like.

SongCraft


Danny:  Ah might as well blame me...it's ok, I got big shoulders for a lil guy. :) 


LOL!! I was sitting here listening to an arrangement when all of a sudden BOOF that left hook hit me. 


+1 to what others said; go write that book and don't forget to autograph it ;)

LOL no no man...I'd never throw a left hook at ya! I'm sorry for not explaining better...lol...my dad has this problem with purposely blaming me for everything no matter what. Even when I'm not around. My mom's been gone since 2007 and he blames her for stuff...it's been a running joke around here for about 30 years. You know like "dad, you left the lights on again" and he'll say "now you know you did it" and I wasn't even home. Or "dad, there's crumbs on the table" and he'll say "mom must have done it". LOL! So each time he blames me for something, I flex at him and say " I got big shoulders....go on, blame me, I can handle it." I took that picture and put a caption on it for him that says "when in doubt, blame sonny boy...everyone else does." :) I luv you mayan, I don't wanna throw no left hooks at anyone. :)
 
-Danny

Got a few people to reply to here so will do soon, but I'll start with these:

trimph1


How does one unmask two frequencies if they coincide?

EQ is one solution. Lets say we have cymbals and an acoustic. No eq, they both naturally kind of want to sit in that same space. They clash. One might slightly lean to the top, one to the bottom. Let them go there and eq them to just shift them in that direction. It might work, especially if the bands are quite wide and you can cut a fair bit without taking out too much of the sound. If the acoustic already only has a very narrow band, you might struggle to move it much. If you try and push them in the opposite direction, it probably won't work as well. But the better solution here I think is to re-record your acoustic. Use a different mic or change the positioning of the mic. You'll much more easily be able to move the natural position of where it wants to sit than eq can do. THEN you can eq to fine tune it the rest of the way and you'll be able to be much softer with your settings and it'll sound much more natural, smoother and better. That's how I see it anyway!

Jamesg1213


I realize I'm just talking about my own particular scenario, but I really don't *know* what kind of a mix I want until I have all the instruments tracked and laid out, therefore I don't know what any instrument *should* sound like in the end, until I start to mix. 

That's exactly why I'm spending a LOT of time recording rough tracks and doing a very quick mix to see where they want to go. It's helping me so much and I KNOW I'll get a result that is ten times better this way. I'm learning so much about just this individual song doing it this way. I feel the need to do it for everything so at the moment, but I'm sure with practise, you'll need to do it less and less. But I can't stress enough the benefit of it.
The alternative is to try and get it right the first time. But if you can't get it to fit in properly, you better be ready to go and re-record it cause you'll get a much better result than trying to 'make it fit'.

I'll spend at least a good hour just tweaking with mic/mics positioning and amp/guitar settings (not including the initial l set up time) to get the right sound. But if I don't have plenty of rough tracks to begin with, all this time may be pretty useless (apart from the learning experience).

This is why I am now a big fan (now) of making rough guide tracks. It's worth the time, unless you have the serious experience, and even then, it's probably worth the time!

Also you mention not *knowing* what the mix needs to be like at the start - that's one reason I like the idea of the soundscape drawing that I put up before, and Danny's one (which I'm still looking into a little deeper, Danny, thanks for that!). Work it out in your mind on paper where things need to be, and record them like that.

mattplaysguitar

That's exactly why I'm spending a LOT of time recording rough tracks and doing a very quick mix to see where they want to go. It's helping me so much and I KNOW I'll get a result that is ten times better this way. I'm learning so much about just this individual song doing it this way. I feel the need to do it for everything so at the moment, but I'm sure with practise, you'll need to do it less and less. But I can't stress enough the benefit of it. 

I completely agree with that. Not that I DO it as much as I should, but I agree that it SHOULD be done. One problem that this creates for a lot of DIYers is that they  don't have enough gear to set up three or four different instrument scenarios so that they can play with them until they are right and then come back and record them, leaving them all set up. Soem of it can be done with good documentation of the setup, particularly DI'd bass. But for mic'd instruments sometimes it's tough to recreate exactly what you have before because it's a bit of a happy accident, at least for us less experienced folks.
 
I guess another option is to just put down the bed tracks for the song, not worrying too much about small goobers. Do what you need to get it roughed out and each part basically right frequency-wise. Do it quickly and don't get precious about it (or you'll start wanting to hack it instead of going back and doing it right), then come back and replace each part, with the benefit of having the other parts there, so that you can mix yourself as you play and hear the parts in context.
 

Hi Danny, 

I understood! 

Your presence, your contributions on these forums is always welcomed :)  

Sorry to hear about you mom :( Hard to put words here other than I'm sure she will always be with in heart and memories.  

I sincerely wish you and your dad all the very best. 

mattplaysguitar

Jamesg1213


I realize I'm just talking about my own particular scenario, but I really don't *know* what kind of a mix I want until I have all the instruments tracked and laid out, therefore I don't know what any instrument *should* sound like in the end, until I start to mix. 

That's exactly why I'm spending a LOT of time recording rough tracks and doing a very quick mix to see where they want to go. It's helping me so much and I KNOW I'll get a result that is ten times better this way. I'm learning so much about just this individual song doing it this way. I feel the need to do it for everything so at the moment, but I'm sure with practise, you'll need to do it less and less. But I can't stress enough the benefit of it.
The alternative is to try and get it right the first time. But if you can't get it to fit in properly, you better be ready to go and re-record it cause you'll get a much better result than trying to 'make it fit'.

Yes, I'm warming to this idea, think I'm going to try it on the project I've just started.

SongCraft


Hi Danny, 

I understood! 

Your presence, your contributions on these forums is always welcomed :)  

Sorry to hear about you mom :( Hard to put words here other than I'm sure she will always be with in heart and memories.  

I sincerely wish you and your dad all the very best. 

I sincerely wish the same as Songcraft. Take care of yourselves....

Question.

I'm thinking of putting a couple of tracks together with some drumming and bass work and am considering putting it up here somewhere...which forum would be good.? Techniques or Songs?  


Both these tracks ...hopefully...will be actual instruments instead of MIDI. My playing on both seems to have improved a bit...

trimph1


Question.

I'm thinking of putting a couple of tracks together with some drumming and bass work and am considering putting it up here somewhere...which forum would be good.? Techniques or Songs?  


Both these tracks ...hopefully...will be actual instruments instead of MIDI. My playing on both seems to have improved a bit...

Put it in songs, but maybe post a link here so we know to follow it, I guess..

Danny, have not had a chance to have another good read over your post earlier, but I will do and post my observations soon!! Thanks for taking the time!