Hi all, I have a m audio profire 2626 interface, and my question is that when I do my mixes then afterwards I compare them with commercial recordings done on pro tools HD,  it sounds small and weak this is bothering me so much. My maximum loudness on the limiter is-0.1  2- 3 db reduction (not enough power and Quality). I do a balanced mix but still whatever I do its still not what I want. I heard playbacks on pro tools hd not even mixed they sound beautiful, when Im saying pro tools hd I mean just a basic 192 hd, no fancy stuff. So Im thinking its the audio interface, ad/da, I struggle so much to separate all the sounds but still there's frequency masking, but on the other hand pro tools Hd sounds more wide in comparison and the sounds are so separate in detail. is this correct can it be my audio interface? can that same mix be done in my setup? with sonar also or DAW have to do with this also.,,?

I will highly appreciate all the replys and advice's guys thanks best regards..

There is no difference in the sound of PT vs. Sonar. It's what you're tracking or how you're tracking that is making problems for you. Trust me, I use both here...there is no difference between them in sound quality. You're doing something wrong in Sonar or have some settings that need to be changed. We can only go so "wide" in a pan field. If you're not getting wide enough in Sonar, that's gotta be something to do with your profire and how it's configured.

As for comparing to commerical recordings, don't waste your time. You will never get that sound unless you are able to record the sounds you hear on a commercial recording. For example, if I run my guitar into Guitar Rig 4, use the SI Bass guitar plug in Sonar, use Session Drummer as my drum module and give you the best recording I can give you, it will not sound like a commercial recording. Simply because these instruments, though great, are not what it takes to get "commercial sound" in certain genre's.

To get commercial levels, you need a mix with all the right stuff that can stand on it's own. That means, properly panned, the right eq curves, the right compression, no frequency masking of any kind, all peaks controlled, and the project has to be mastered properly by someone that knows what they are doing. Lose one of those elements and you just cut your chances to compete with commercial recordings.

Keep in mind, a commercial recording most times is done by a record label. Labels have money...connections, killer studio's they deal with, engineer and producer that know the field and the craft. You can't compare your little 20k studio investment vs. millions of dollars in experience, gear, the right rooms and of course, just knowing how to put it all together. So stop pulling your hair out brother. Concentrate on what may be wrong with your card settings and Sonar. Read the X1 manual or do some research on the M Audio site to see what they recommend when using that card with Sonar. Good luck.

-Danny

Danny is pretty much right on the money. The commercial artists have producers, engineers and studio musicians who are the best of the best that money can buy.  They know the craft, and the music, and how to get a good sound. 

Since digital is digital no matter the DAW platform, the results you get on one should sound the same on a different DAW.  The quality is the same. Plugs, FX and such things will alter the sound but the underlying quality is the same.  With cake's "beginner DAW", MC4, I was producing music that was being signed by some of the biggest music libraries in the business for use in film & TV. 

As hobbyists and part timers, working in shared rooms (bedroom/studio) the sound we hear on professionally produced CD's is generally not something, sound wise that we can easily achieve in our makeshift studios. However, it is totally possible to produce music that is 100% radio ready in every aspect. Sound quality, overall volume level, etc..... are all possible in a home studio with the software tools currently available. 

With the proper gear and software, musical talent, lots of study, and trial and error and learning from our mistakes, it is totally possible to achieve an excellent sounding mix. Many here can do that on a consistent basis. 


It is mostly about the education and understanding you have, and of course having a few essential software tools to help you get it done. 

I mostly use the default Cake FX.... Studioverb 2, delays, and eq in my tracks,  and a few third party FX such as Melodyne for pitch correction on vocals, and Ozone for polishing the mix.   That is about it.  I believe that by learning a few FX and knowing how to use them effectively and well, as opposed to having tons of FX and randomly throwing them in a project hoping for a good sound, is the better way to work. So my "go to" tools in the tool box are limited to a few tried and tested plugs. 

Thats just my 2 cents. 

Good comments from Danny and Guitarhacker.  Nothing to add.

Rimshot

Thank you very much guys for the advices, I feel little better knowing it has nothing to do with the DAW, But what about the interface? do I need to go HD or no, Because I wanna get Quality mixes , and by saying quality I mean being able to identify all the sounds ,open , clean mix that there is no frequency masking, I know guys (complimentary Eqing still dont get what I want) I'm talking about the separation of sounds, I even Sum to analog board to  avoid frequency masking,  but still problems,. Ive been through a lot of trial and errors  many many years and a lot of frustration also  . I mean is there some kind of secret? seems funny :( once you come to a point that you overcome the trials and errors, then do you know what needs to be done every time you mix??  Danny Im gonna research on the settings for my  profire 2626 and compatibility with Sonar, did you have any particular setting in mind?

The interface is capable of adding some color to the signal. For example, I use a Focusrite Saffire. It has a software console in it where I am able to preset EQ, reverb and compression.  So yeah, depending on how I set those FX that are built in to the software front end in the Saffire..... DSP..... I can alter the sound. 

However, since I don't want coloration in the signal, I have the levels of those FX set very low..... almost not even there. 

I'm guessing M-Audio has something similar. I'd set them neutral or off to start with.... then turn them on and see what difference it makes. 

Is there some good threads or videos you guys can recommend I would appreciate thank you.

The only way it sounded beautiful unmixed is because it was recorded beautifully. It all starts with the source. If you don't record good sounds, you'll be struggling to make it sound good. If you do record good sounds, then you can spend your time enhancing them in ways that don't get in the way of the good sounds you already have. The biggest problem of all, IMO, with most of us newbies is that everything you read on the net is about mixing, mixing, mixing, mastering, mastering, mastering, as though a bunch of plugins are all that matter and everything suddenly sounds great. Pros know how to record it to sound good to begin with, so they are starting off a few miles ahead of you.
 
If you are recording yourself, then put more time into learning how to record. Try to make it sound mixed as recorded. Take the time to get it right. Listen to songs you like and try your best to break them down and figure out why those parts work together. It'll pay off more than anything else you can do. Work on how you select parts so that they fit together to create a nice overall effect.
 
If you are just interesting in being a mixer, then get some professionally recorded tracks to mix, where you know that they were well recorded and you can hear other people's mixes of those tracks to get a feel for what is possible, so that you know if you can't get what they can, it's your fault and you need to learn more. Look into the Shaking Through stuff. Those guys record some very interesting artists and make the multitracks available to everyone to mix. Look in Gearslutz.com for Weathervane and Shaking Though and you'll find them. 

 

Once you get past the song itself and players, there is the arrangement.  Many times a weak mix comes from not have your instruments spread across the sound spectrum.  It is too busy in the low or high end, so the instruments aren't separated.  It is like panning, but frequency dependent.  There is a ton of stuff like that, and some of it is just basics.  If the guitar is doing a staccato rhythm strum, the bass or the keys should hold the notes.  You can get into all kinds of opposites like that, which opens up the space in the song, which makes it feel stronger.

You don't mention your style of music, but the front end matters, too.  Most AD/DAs, even lower end stuff, is pretty good and isn't going to step on your sound.  But recording acoustic stuff, a good mic or two (LDC and SDC, preferably two of the latter to do stereo) makes a difference - to go along w/ a 57.  If you get a cheap but good ribbon so much the better.  You don't have to buy an old Newman, but just something decent.  Same w/ the preamp or a channel strip.  Again, you don't have to buy a vintage Neve (tho it never hurts), but something a step up from your built-in interface's preamps.  Another thing is the room - if it sounds horrible, well, that is going to tape, too.  Again, you don't have to build a room, but if you get rid of the bad resonances, frequency build-ups and slap-back echoes, etc., that will help.  Each of these acoustic steps might be smaller than you hope for laying out good cash, but cumulatively, they really matter to take the next step up.  That helps w/ monitoring, too (which is another place to spend some of your hard-earned
money).

Lastly, the mixing.  If you get a good recording, it becomes easier to mix.  And the more you mix, the better you get.  I've heard plenty of "professional" sounding mixes done in the bedroom, but the mixers knew what they were doing.

@

AT and Dean both make two VERY good points here and are most likely the crux of your problems.

Recording - at the end of the day, this accounts for easily 80-90% of your sound. If you don't have this right, or pretty close, you're fighting not just an uphill battle, but up an over vertical cliff.

Composition - is everything (also). I'm not talking about simply writing a good song. A good catchy song can still sound sonically empty and boring. If it's that good, it may still sound great regardless, but we are striving for the ultimate in sound here. If you don't compose instruments in a way that create that huge (or whatever feeling you're going for) sound many of us are going for, you're going to really struggle to make it happen in the mix.

Forget buying more gear for now. It's not worth it. If you really want to spend some cash, get some good books on recording and song composition. Or even find a course to do. You'll get so much more from that than the mere 0.05% gain you'll get from getting new pre-amps. Only when you have everything else right is it worth upgrading your gear. Find the bottleneck. Fix the bottleneck. Then find the new one. Work your way up from there.

Study to music similar in your style. Listen to what is used in the composition. Draw a soundscape of where everything sits. Work out why. List the instruments. List their purpose. Study study study. It's amazing how many instruments can be involved in an almost empty sounding, simple intro to a song. Each adding their own little important element. Conversely, don't add too many instruments if you don't know why else risk things getting too busy! Adding lots makes mixing much harder and you risk screwing it up.