• Hardware
  • Putting together a stage system (p.2)
2014/12/16 06:15:44
Karyn
johnnyV
And my latest trick , the pour mans sub. I just sold my Yorkville 18" powered sub , too big for my Subaru. I'm using a 200 watt Bass amp. Works fine. Just turn the Mid and Treble off and the Bass up to 11. 

The first band I was in when I left school had a new year's eve gig in the local village hall. We forgot to hire a PA and at the last minute managed to "borrow" a mismatched pair of old bass amps from a local music store which became the PA for the night..  Worked great!  (better than the band, anyway)
2014/12/16 07:44:30
tlw
How many people and what size of building will the PA need to accomodate?
2014/12/16 14:56:07
spacealf
Yes, I know the JBL is for only one speaker, and the other option there is the 15" speaker EON whatever it is with stands and cables and two of them for $1100.
 
Afterall, Peavey was usually used with a 800 watt amp for a PA, or Kustom Speakers with an amp (for the PA).
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/c21--Peavey--Studio_Mixers
http://www.sweetwater.com/c456--Peavey--2_Channel_Amplifiers
(doesn't include speakers)
 
Whatever is cheap I guess unless a person wants to spend a lot more nowadays.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305
stuff like that for equipment. (Class D Amps)
 
Ah the old days like: (Kustom Speakers)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kustom_Amplification
 

 
It's a Church, one speaker probably be more than enough for quite a while in a 40ft. x 60ft. room, even way bigger room.
(yes, two speakers would be better, but then it all costs money).
Anyway, that is up to the person spending the money.
 
Buying used only may be cheaper if it all works. Not the shiny new smell and shiny new cabinets with new stuff though.
 
Way back in the old days - used to use stuff like this:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/bogen-amplifier
50 watt amps for a public address system.
Old days!
 
But it seems like nowadays, people want to play louder and most people end up going into another room like at the jam sessions because some bands just get too loud. It may be that loud is out, reasonable sound is in.
??
 
Unless you want a Wall of Sound like this in the '70's and are Grateful Dead:
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/history/jbl-pro/jbl-pro.htm
26,400 watts.
 
2014/12/16 16:43:47
TerraSin
If you have some good woodworkers in your church, I HIGHLY recommend building BFM speakers. They can be made for a fraction of the cost you would pay for professional audio products and will be some of the best sounding speakers you will ever hear.
 
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/
2014/12/20 18:48:33
davdud101
Well, today came the Christmas Party. And just as suspected, the sound system the guy brought was horrendous- very unclear and muted, not loud at all, nasally... couldn't turn up the volume or the treble without introducing feedback..... Just horrendous.

We've been discussing different methods of acquisition: like I said, we own equipment, so I'm considering telling the leaders to buy a tiny mixer and some cables, then we can rent speakers and use my mics! 
 
That seems like a much better, more cost-effective use of $250 than renting someone's horrible equipment, or shelling out up into the thousands for ours. I know it'll be more over time, but we don't mind the long run since we can't get that when we need it. My church isn't so high-end (read: we paid $250 to rent that equipment)
I guess I'm asking then... What brands/models am I to look for for rentals? Obviously JBL is on my list.
2014/12/22 14:39:31
spacealf
I would not know what they rent if anything. The only Sound Reinforcement System is at the Blues Fest in the Summer, and that thing fed back a lot of times or else the person running the sound could not adjust it, despite all the computer and speakers and board whatever it was. I did not look at it at all, just noticed the fed back and the sound going down almost 3 city blocks (not large city blocks either).
 
They may rent what they have, but for $250 you can get one speaker (PA speaker which is PA - not Sound Reinforcement System which is larger with mics on everything) but then I am not buying it, so I doubt they rent just anything if there is a place to rent any PA system in the first place.
 
Only reason mentioned the new JBL PA self-powered speakers is because the coverage is it seems it more than twice as much or about the same for one speaker vs. two speakers of another manufacturer there looking through the pages.
 
It use to be at one time, building some wood cabinets and sticking in 2-12" radio shack speakers for a PA system (two speakers cabinets total) which is all that could be afforded (not self-powered though - passive speakers). It sounded okay though I guess. Well, who knows, probably was days feeling good from the booze and the distortion in Rock&Roll whatever it was.
 

 
Renting a PA may depend on the area you live in, whether it is actually just a PA or like I said more of a Sound Reinforcement System.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_reinforcement_system
which in the end costs way, way, way more.
 
There is also college courses on sound engineering or acoustic engineering with calculus and other subjects (and probably no guaranttee of a job afterwards like - recording studio like a Sound Engineer.) The professional side gets blurry with all the home equipment out nowadays to have people do it theirselves, or make a name for theirself whatever.
theirself - means - he/she/space-alien type fuzzy hairy ugly biological meat creature that can talk and act in the galaxy or universe. ( somewhat humor there).
 
2014/12/22 14:53:48
eikelbijter
Alto speakers are excellent! I have two 10" ones and one 15" and they're all great! Clear sound, built in D.I. with ground lift, light........ unbelievable for the price really.
2014/12/22 20:36:45
Paul P
Karyn
An alternative (just within budget) would be a split set like these which includes built in mixing.  Again you'd need two to link together, but you save on speaker stands and a mixer...  you can buy the top unit separate without the sub, but I wouldn't recommend it for the reasons I gave above.

 
I hadn't seen this kind of setup before, but this is a great idea.  Subs down low where it doesn't matter and a line array at and above people's heads.  I've been to a lot of presentations or small shows in a church or community center and often there are these sizeable speakers way up on flimsy tripods with cables going all over the place, crossing ailes and lying around the front floor.  I've cringed every time someone walks over these cables and imagined the speaker tipping over into the people seated in rows just beside/below it.  Someone could die.  At least tape the cables to the floor...
 
The above speakers are probably impossible to tip over if the bottoms are reasonably heavy and the cables going up are tied lower down somewhere, like the base of the post or even just passing them under the box.
 
2014/12/27 10:10:55
MandolinPicker
Here's another option you might look into. Check with other churches in your area, both for the expertise they may bring to the table and the sound systems they may have available. It is not uncommon that as a church grows, it outgrows its current equipment. New equipment is purchased, but the old equipment is still very usable.That equipment may be re-purposed, sold to help cover the cost of the upgrades, or donated to help other churches.
 
For example, when we moved from our portable gym setup to a new permanent sanctuary, the new setup was a combination of existing and new equipment (60-channel mixer). The mixer we used in the gym (28 channel) was re-purposed for doing recording. There was a need to continue using a portable system, so a smaller mixer was purchased (12-channel) and we purchased a small portable lighting set. We use that portable set around the church for various functions, and occasionally 'take it on the road' to support other churches and their events.
 
My suggestion is get to know the tech crews at the other churches in your area, attend a few worship tech conventions if possible, and let it be known that you are looking for equipment. You might be surprised what is available.
 
Hope that helps
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