Wow,
  I gotta say it doesn't seem to me that it would make any sense to push your input levels that close to 0db only to risk peaking and ruining the take.   The theory doesn't seem to hold up and even when faced with elaborate explanations Ben, your arrogance is a tough pill to swallow.

  In the end I would say for test it for yourself, do several recordings match the levels before exporting them, and have someone else rename the files and write down the original names.  give yourself a blind test and see how you do. 

He's a lost cause. He's more determined to Internet Win this argument - which he's started threads on multiple times now, with the same nonsensical arguments - than he is to be any good at audio engineering. If he's so bullishly determined to be incompetent, I say let him.

Ok firstly Stav say's as close to 0dbfs as possible, so what Danny has said is correct, I like to hit between -3db peak and -6db peak, not always possible.

Oh yea there is a difference in the bottom end, this is where is is most important stuff goes on for me and by getting that bass as loud as possible the more definition I can achieve and the more warmth, maybe it has something to do with the higher recording input and capturing the harmonics better.

Did no one understand the concept of optimum or optimum operational level and each recording medium has it!!

And so lord pontiff where is this pg number ascribing the concept to 16 bit only??

Finally I was giving The Ponitificater a kick when I said leave the technical stuff to me, it was tongue firmly in cheek!!!

Neb

John T


He's a lost cause. He's more determined to Internet Win this argument - which he's started threads on multiple times now, with the same nonsensical arguments - than he is to be any good at audio engineering. If he's so bullishly determined to be incompetent, I say let him.

Actually I put up the evidence this time for my theory, put up or shut up as they say JohnT, once again who are you???
 
Neb

BenMMusTech


Did no one understand the concept of optimum or optimum operational level and each recording medium has it!!

The "optimal" level for digital is anywhere you both aren't clipping and the quantization level is a bit below the noise floor of your signal. Quantizing this noise at a lower level doesn't add any benefit. And with 24bit audio you aren't going to hear the quantization noise in the real world, even if you amplify it.

drewfx1

BenMMusTech


Did no one understand the concept of optimum or optimum operational level and each recording medium has it!!

The "optimal" level for digital is anywhere you both aren't clipping and the quantization level is a bit below the noise floor of your signal. Quantizing this noise at a lower level doesn't add any benefit. And with 24bit audio you aren't going to hear the quantization noise in the real world, even if you amplify it.

But what if we are missing out importent information like harmonics because of recording too softly, as I say some convertors and it may come back to this question of convertor quality, don't use the full 144db of dynamic range, some as I have pointed out are barely using 101db, so just over 16 bit. 
  
And what about the idea of is we turn down the signal level in digital we are actually adding distortion, Drew I know that your the real tech head here explain these concepts please.
 
Neb

wow

BenMMusTech

drewfx1

BenMMusTech


Did no one understand the concept of optimum or optimum operational level and each recording medium has it!!

The "optimal" level for digital is anywhere you both aren't clipping and the quantization level is a bit below the noise floor of your signal. Quantizing this noise at a lower level doesn't add any benefit. And with 24bit audio you aren't going to hear the quantization noise in the real world, even if you amplify it.

But what if we are missing out importent information like harmonics because of recording too softly, as I say some convertors and it may come back to this question of convertor quality, don't use the full 144db of dynamic range, some as I have pointed out are barely using 101db, so just over 16 bit. 
  
      
Neb

It always comes down to what I said:

The "optimal" level for digital is anywhere you both aren't clipping and the quantization level is a bit below the noise floor of your signal.  

The mistake people make is they imagine the noise isn't there (which is quite easy to do). Or they change the rules midstream and create a moving target. Mind you, this is often done unconsciously and/or inadvertently.

And what about the idea of is we turn down the signal level in digital we are actually adding distortion,   

The "distortion" here is just the quantization error. But if the quantization level is below the noise floor, and the noise is more or less random, the noise acts as a form of "self-dither". So the quantization error becomes "noise", not "distortion" - just like when you add dither before reducing bit depth at the other end.

And, since this quantization "noise" is both very low in level and below the noise level of the signal, then even if it was amplified enough to be audible it would likely be masked by the signal + noise anyway.

Ok so what about, sorry Drew, I refer to you as the most technicaly minded of us all here.

So what about the notion of missing information because we are not using all the bit's avaliable to us eg: harmonics.

I hope that makes sense.

Neb

Ben,
IF you WANT a real education read the GS thread I liked to earlier.
Skip Burrows works WITH and ON SSL consoles EVERYDAY.
Paul Frindle was on the design team AT SSL.
They are ADAMANT that you keep your signal levels the same in the digital realm as you would in hardware.
Danny's input PEAKING at -6 is like pushing the VU all the way to the right. His AVERAGE signal will be right at Ovu.
At 0dBfs the needle will be PEGGED.
Nothing personal here Ben. You are free to record however "sounds" best to you.
You don't have to believe a single word I say, (and probably shouldn't, I'm just another internet "Know it all") BUT Skip and Paul have REAL credentials.

'nough said.

T