I should know this by now but ...

When I calibrate my monitors, say for k-20 at 76 dBFS, Should my Sonar "Mains" meter be reading -20 peak or -20 RMS ?

Thanks,

Sam 

My Bad - SCorey already answered this for me - sorry.

It is good question because it is different in Sonar compared to other DAW's.

Firstly to clarify with the test signal. The very peaks of the sinewave are meant to go right up to the required reference level. So if it is a -20 FS level we are talking then the peaks of our sinewave will reach -20 dB FS.

When you play this back in Sonar and if rms and peak are engaged (also this advice is for 8.5 not X1 but I assume the same) you will see the peak signal at -20 and the rms level at -23db rms. This is because Sonars meters are showing the true rms level which is in fact 3 db down from peak. (Note when you are watching playback of music, it is the rms meters you are mainly interested in and what overall level they are at. Sonor makes it harder because this indicator is lower down on the scale than it should be.) Easily rectified by the addition of a K system meter.

Some DAW's allow you to re jig how your track and buss meters are behaving. And when you put them into K system mode, they are now showing the rms part around 0 dB VU (with the headroom on its own scale above that) and you can still have a peak indicator on but it is working up in the headroom area above our reference now.

If your DAW cannot go into K system metering mode then we need another K system meter installed and patched in now to see a 0 dB FSD on a either a VU meter or something like the BlueCat meter (or Klanghem) so we can much better see our rms level being displayed right at the top of a meter scale as opposed to way down on a normal DAW meter. That is why normal DAW meters are not great for K system level checking. Your level setting operations become much better when you are looking at something hovering near 0 dB VU as opposed to way down at -23 db rms. The display is also only responding to rms levels and not peaks also making it much easier to adjust levels correctly. ie slower and smoother.

Hey Jeff - I'm about to buy the Klanghelm meters right now, they are in my price range. I don't know a lot about this. How will those meters relate to my -20 RMS on the sonar scale?

Thanks a lot !
Sam

OK Sam good to see. Well it is rather simple really. Once you have installed your meters and you have let your DAW know they are there, you should be able to patch them in either on a track or a buss. (mono tracks will use the single meter and stereo tracks the dual meter. NOTE Single meter can display both L and R levels on one single meter, handy! You will see two VU needles moving when using a single meter in stereo mode! Be careful looking at that after a few wines LOL! Bottom left of meter is where you see either one circle or two circles interleaved. Click here to select desired single meter mode. Single meter can be put into normal mono mode and you will only see one VU needle as normal. I tend to use the dual meters for stereo as you would expect.)

Read the instructions for the meters. You need to tell the meter you are at K -20 ref level. It is done by clicking on those little numbers down the bottom there. Where it says VU/PPM bottom right. Just click there and you will get some options for K ref levels. Hold your mouse directly over that little number eg - 18. Left click and hold and then move mouse in vertical up or down movement to alter this setting. Set to -20 etc. This is a bit fiddly, it is normal I think.

Now when you play your test tone the meters should read 0 dB on the scale. You are looking at rms only now on the VU meters. Still use your peak indicators to keep tabs on what your peaks are up to.

Check here for some more info about setting the ballistics of the VU meters themselves.

http://forum.cakewalk.com...?m=2502867&mpage=2

Check post #51

If you need any sine wave test signals let me know and I will post them on my Soundcloud. I have a -14 db rms sine wave up there now. You could download that and drop it down by 6 dB to make a -20 dB FS test tone. Pink noise will show up a little under - 1 dB on the VU meter, that is normal. If you are loading in band limited pink noise, check to see what it shows on the VU. If it is now down -6 or - 7 dB or so then you need to trim the level back up to match the pink noise level around -1 dB VU. This is for your room monitor calibration I am talking about here.

Thanks much Jeff - I appreciate the help !

Jeff - 

It would be great to have - 20 dB Sine wave. I downloaded your -14 and it works fine, but it would be nice to have everything in Sonar at 0.

Thank you!

Sam

Hi Sam. I have posted three new test signals up on my Soundcloud. They are all downloadable.

http://soundcloud.com/jeff-evans

The first one is the sinewave at -20 db FS. (ref Level 0dB VU -20dB FS) It is a stereo interleaved file. If you set your Klanghelm meters to K-20 then they should read 0dB VU which is correct. Sonar meters will be showing -23dB rms.

Next one is Pink noise full range also at -20dB FS. Now this will show almost 0 dB VU It will fall short by about -1dB.  (normal) You can use this to set your room monitor level but your SPL meter needs to be on C weighting and be careful with your low end in your room.

Third one is Band Limited Pink Noise. Because everything below 500 Hz and above 2 KHz is removed, this track normally would play back lower than normal eg around -26 or -27 dB FS. However this file has been adjusted for that so you don't have to do anything at all. It will just playback at the same level as the full range pink noise (around -1dB on the VU) but sound different of course.

As Steve and others have pointed out this test signal avoids any bottom end issues you may be having in your room and you can use either A or C weighting to calibrate your SPL room level.

Obviously turn up the room level to suit your desired amount of SPL. For me it is 80 -85 dB SPL but for you and others it is lower eg 76 or 77 dB SPL.

Good luck.

Jeff - 

I'm not sure if my PM's were getting through. When I would send, I got a message saying successful, but nothing ever showed up in my "sent" folder. Anyway, thanks very much, I have everything I need and I sincerely appreciate your help.

Sam

Hey Sam and other interested K system users. It is good to work at a particular K system ref level but it is also easy to recalibrate and work at other K levels as well. I don't use K -12 much but I do a lot of work at K-14 though.

Sam in your case K -20 is a fine level to work at. Think of it as having the nicest transients and detail in the sound. Max headroom for sure. Good to work at 24 bit in the session.

The VU meters are the thing you are going to have to change. The Klanghelm meters allow you to change ref levels pretty easily. My Yamaha mixer is all setup for K -14 and it represents a great mix of headroom, hence transients and a hefty rms level. 6 dB hotter than a K -20 mix.

You will need a full set of K -14 dB waves if you want those I can arrange it as well. I have folder on my desktop called Test Tones wilth all these things in it. Any session you create in any DAW only needs to point to that folder for the audio to playback etc..It is good to do sinewave ref level tests and recalibration from time to time.

Thanks Jeff - I have your -14 signals as you had those available. Since I am new at this, I now need to do a lot of experimenting and practice. That's really what I like to do the most anyway. Remember, for me this is at a hobby level. Thanks again for your help!