2012/04/10 15:17:43
ruralrocker2010
Well, he sold me.
2012/04/10 18:27:22
UbiquitousBubba
Great tips, guys.  Thanks for sharing.  I'll be saving this one.
2012/04/10 18:35:58
Rimshot
Great thread.  Thanks to all!

Rimshot
2012/04/10 22:06:58
bitflipper

A lot of mixes seem to build up energy around 200 to 300Hz. I find a little dip there can make a masive difference. Maybe -3db or so and not over a very wide range either.

I used to do that, too. No more. Turning down the mud range on the master doesn't clear up mud, it just makes it quieter. 


Lately I've been taking a different approach: figure out which instrument(s) should own that range and dip its competitors individually. You still avoid excessive mud, except that it now sounds like something.

To quote slipperman: "Don't scoop the low mid, make it your b i t ch!"

2012/04/10 22:33:42
Danny Danzi
bitflipper



A lot of mixes seem to build up energy around 200 to 300Hz. I find a little dip there can make a masive difference. Maybe -3db or so and not over a very wide range either.

I used to do that, too. No more. Turning down the mud range on the master doesn't clear up mud, it just makes it quieter. 


Lately I've been taking a different approach: figure out which instrument(s) should own that range and dip its competitors individually. You still avoid excessive mud, except that it now sounds like something.

To quote slipperman: "Don't scoop the low mid, make it your b i t ch!"

Same here, Dave. I never remove it unless it sounds like it truly is excessive. 200-300 can add a nice body when used in moderation and gives it a "different" type of low end push. Without it, mixes can sound thin. When I listen to something before I master it, I never just touch something for the sake of touching it. If it sounds good and the eq curve looks rediculous...so be it...I leave it. :)
 
-Danny
2012/04/10 23:48:58
mattplaysguitar
Danny, just to clarify, you'll go through a song and use volume automation to bring down any major peaks? Basically manual limiting, before you do your actual limiting. Some would call this excessive. I like excessive. I am a bit of a perfectionist and do this exact kind of thing.

I have not done much 'mastering' but looking at picking up plenty of little tips along the way. I've read Bob Katz's book through a few times and can't wait to perform things like automation over the entire album adjusting every song so it flows perfectly, song to song. I love that kind of stuff.

There really is so much to learn... But understanding the mastering process will really help in mixing. If I know what kind of things I will need to look out for and fix in mastering, I know what I can tweak in mixing to make that process easier later on.
2012/04/11 01:18:16
Danny Danzi
mattplaysguitar


Danny, just to clarify, you'll go through a song and use volume automation to bring down any major peaks? Basically manual limiting, before you do your actual limiting. Some would call this excessive. I like excessive. I am a bit of a perfectionist and do this exact kind of thing.

I have not done much 'mastering' but looking at picking up plenty of little tips along the way. I've read Bob Katz's book through a few times and can't wait to perform things like automation over the entire album adjusting every song so it flows perfectly, song to song. I love that kind of stuff.

There really is so much to learn... But understanding the mastering process will really help in mixing. If I know what kind of things I will need to look out for and fix in mastering, I know what I can tweak in mixing to make that process easier later on.

Matt, yeah that's exactly it. I know it's definitely excessive, but if you think about it, you're only going to have as much room as your peaks allow. If we take a mix with lots of peaks that make it look like a heart monitor, and we just compress and limit them, the rest of the mix gets raised and actually compresses more to where you can pick up artifacts from limiting due to trying to keep up with a commercial release.
 
The more we work the limiter, the more it gets that "limiter" sound we all hate. The first thing you notice is your snare drum loses crack or the mix will pump. If you have all the peaks controlled before you get to this stage and the mix is nice and leveled, when you add the limiter it literally brings the mix together as an entity because it won't be capped as much due to the peak transients. The end result is less limiting, a cleaner mix and less of a chance of any artifacts creeping into the mix due to over-use of the limiter.
 
Granted, you can still over use it after you manually level because it won't have those transients controlling the way the limiter reacts, but even if over-used, you won't get the same results as when you don't control peaks. Try it and you'll see what I mean. The more something peaks, the harder the limiter works to keep things tight. The more you use a limiter, the more you hear it and that's what we DON'T want. :)
 
And you're right, understanding the mastering process WILL help you to mix better. It's all a matter of knowing what to listen for and how to fix something. The more you can fix at the mix stage, the smoother the mastering process will be. For example, if you fire up a mix in Sonar and enable the wave preview on your master bus and see loads of high peaks that just don't look right, it's best to control them from the mix and find out where and why they are happening.
 
Most times it's a kick, snare, hat or something else forceful that just leaps out. Lack of proper compression on kicks and snares is usually the culprit as quite a few people don't know what they are supposed to be listening for then they compress those instruments. They'll use a preset or something and just let it fly not taking into consideration that the preset they are using was created using a DIFFERENT kick or snare drum than the one they are using.
 
But like you said with it helping you to mix better, after you get a general idea as to how this works, you start to actually go into pre-master mode when you get near the end of your mix-down. Like for me, when I get the mix where I want it, then I start checking for things that I'd be thinking about when listening to the mix in a mastering situation. You just have to try to wear each hat when the time is right and not jump too far ahead. :)
 
-Danny
2012/04/11 02:12:43
mattplaysguitar
Brilliant. I think we're on exactly the same page here.

I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to different hats... Doing this whole thing from scratch. So many hats. I got to write the songs. Then put on drummer and producer hat and practice and write, then recording engineer hat to record those drums. Then technical comping engineer. Then timing engineer (I'm not a great drummer). Then bass player. Back to producer! Recording! Then eventually all of the instruments, then mixing! Different stages of mixing, pre master, technical, perfectionist, mastering, listener. Blah. And I'm also getting into film. Got film clips and website and artwork. Learning After Effects. Photoshooting. Lighting. Sheesh, the list is endless.

But if it's technical, I love it! :D
2012/04/11 13:15:17
batsbrew
my number one mastering tip:


FIX IT IN THE MIX.



2012/04/11 16:34:33
FastBikerBoy
Great thread and post Jeff, and Danny too of course. Still trying to find my way around this subject. Thanks for sharing.
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