Hi Guys,

I've seen it mentioned in different books and magazines without really understanding exactly how its done.

I'm talking about the idea of 'scooping out a whole for the vocals' or 'making room for the vocals' etc.

I suppose it basically means taking the mid out of the instrumental arrangement, right? I was wondering if I could get any tips on how to do this properly without making my mix sound weak.

As always, any ideas are really appreciated.

Ed.

No... you really do not want to "make a hole" for the vocals in a mix and it is not necessary or desirable to take the mids out of the mix to make room for the vocals.  

This is something you need to work on to get it right but here's what I do.

I put the mix together and have everything sounding good ..... nothing weak or scooped (beyond what sounds good) and then I drop the vocal in the mix. Pretty much centered and with a level that is appropriate for the genre of music. Country vocals are louder than rock vocals relative to the music. 

Use compression, and reverb to smooth the transition of the vocal into the music mix. It shouldn't be buried in the mix nor should it stick out above the mix. Finding that perfect fit and level will take time and become easier with experience. 

Don't make the mistake of trying to use too much reverb or other FX to make a vocal track fit.  Listen to music that you like in the genre you are working and listen....really listen to how the mix was built, and where in the mix the vocals are setting.  Then try to achieve that in your mix. 

Practice makes perfect. Nothing beats digging in and having a go at it.  And..... if you post your mixes in the songs forum, you can get the feedback of others here with advice on what is good and what could be done better. The songs forum is a great tool to use to improve your skills. 

learn-TRY LCR MIXING.

that'll get your hole workin'

Here's another approach for you. Put the vocal up first, build the mix around it.

"Finding that perfect fit and level will take time and become easier with experience." Yes, I agree, I've been with several WAIT!!?? Are we talking about the same thing?

Middleman has nailed it. Start with the vocals and bring everything else in after that. A really good rule is if you want to mix a vocal tune and you want the vocals to still be there at the end of the day then start with the vocals and bring everything else in around them. I have found anyway it is not a good idea to create a big complex mix first and then try to squeeze the vocals in, you will never get them to fit in. There is simply no room for them. Reason is you have not given them any priority and yet they are the most important thing!

You don't have to scoop out a mid range hole around everything either to make room for them. But it does not hurt to send any instruments that might be right in the vocal range to a buss and scoop out a little mids on just those sounds only leaving other sounds alone.

The best way to get vocal music balance right is to sum your mix L+R and put the mix into a small mono speaker and turn it right down in level. You will soon hear when the vocals are right. It is the ONLY way to do it. Then when you crank up loud again on your normal monitors you will find the vocals sound fantastic compared to the music. If you cannot do this the next best thing is turn your main speakers way down low and check the vocal balance that way. This is one area that most people get wrong and it is the single main reason why a lot of recordings sound amateur.

+1 Jeff.  I start with the lead vocal, bass, drums, keys, and guitar.  Once everything is in and balanced, I start working from a very low playback volume to see if I can hear everthing clearly - including lyrics.  I don't do the mono thing like I used to but you are right on track with that as well.

Rimshot

Thanks guys,


Ok so if I record the Vocals, then mute everything and bring the other instruments in one by one - hows that for a plan?
Also, why does mixing the vocals at a low volume work better than mixing loud?

One possible explanation for mixing vocals soft is that when you are right down low, our ears don't really hear the high and low end of the spectrum very well and what is left is mainly middle I suppose. Not only the vocal middle but the music backing middle frequencies. Without all that extra bottom and top end around it just seems easier to balance the music and the vocals much better.

Even doing an instrumental mix at low volume on a small speaker is very revealing in terms of getting the balance right especially if you have quite a few things going on.

We still need the higher volumes too for bass, kicks and reverbs etc.

batsbrew


learn-TRY LCR MIXING.

that'll get your hole workin'

+1
 
With LCR mixing ... your whisper sounds normal, your normal sounds lashing out, and your lashing out becomes deafening.
 
Of course your bass and kick may need to be center-panned ... then you may want to LPF those instruments and HPF your vox a bit.