Is it just me who thinks that the problem here started with the mentality of the person who having discovered they were in building that was very much on fire decided that the first thing they should do was to get their phone out and film it so they can put it on FB.
 
Hey wake up and get out of here quick -  the whole building's on fire......
 
Ok thanks. I'll be out as soon as I've put that on Facebook.
 
 
 FFS! 
 

paulo
Is it just me who thinks that the problem here started with the mentality of the person who having discovered they were in building that was very much on fire decided that the first thing they should do was to get their phone out and film it so they can put it on FB.
 
Hey wake up and get out of here quick -  the whole building's on fire......
 
Ok thanks. I'll be out as soon as I've put that on Facebook.
 
 
 FFS! 
 

I guess when there's literally nothing else you can do, why not? 

I guess I'm not quite as cynical and hard-bitten as I like to think I am,  I couldn't watch more than a couple of seconds of that video.

sharke

paulo
Is it just me who thinks that the problem here started with the mentality of the person who having discovered they were in building that was very much on fire decided that the first thing they should do was to get their phone out and film it so they can put it on FB.
 
Hey wake up and get out of here quick -  the whole building's on fire......
 
Ok thanks. I'll be out as soon as I've put that on Facebook.
 
 
 FFS! 
 

I guess when there's literally nothing else you can do, why not? 

Get out or die trying springs to mind.

Ya, the NYP are pretty gross with that kind of crap. Reminds me of the Toronto Sun. Used to read it back in the day (there was always a copy of the TO Sun around in restaurants/bars and shiz) and it was at least somewhat informative about local events/issues even if you had to kind of read through some of the bombastic slant they crammed in there. Eventually though it became unreadable. Just constant nonsense designed to enrage and manipulate.
 
For big stories and generally get an idea of what's up in the world and in Canada I mostly read the CBC site but they of course have their own brand of slantiness (just not quite as bad as other outfits) and I find their coverage of events isn't as thorough as I'd like (as in they simply don't cover certain stories but I guess they can cover EVERYTHING). From there I'll research things more on my own to cobble together a reasonable image of the truth. Usually a lot of hunting around for raw video/audio feeds without a pile of talking heads and editing trying to tell THEIR version of the truth.
 
It can be very difficult to get to the meat of a matter/topic/event these days without getting sucked into talking points/agendas but with some effort and a concerted effort to not succumb to "confirmation bias" (which admittedly I did suffer from quite a bit when I was younger) I think it is possible to remain informed from an objective perspective. It's a lot of work and requires a HUGE amount of general skepticism/knowing your news sources and how they tend to slant things.
 
Related to this topic though this was on the CBC this morning...
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/london-fire-grenfell-tarling-expert-1.4163560
 
It's an interview with a building surveyor/official discussing the cladding issue and how this type of event was foreseeable (and he made it known well before the event). It jibes with (and explains) some of the posts we had here and I've seen elsewhere about the "cladding" and why it's so dangerous (and the crappy UK building codes that allow it).
 
When I kept seeing "cladding" I didn't really know wth people were referring to (and I used to do building contractor stuff) but I guess it's like aluminum siding and (in this case) filled with chemical insulation. The insulation being the flammable material. Worth a read... and for those in the UK a call to your members of parliament to improve the building codes.
 
Completely preventable this was.

One good thing about this whole "fake news" meme that's been going around over the last few months is, I think people are becoming a lot wiser to the fact that we have no real way of telling whether newspapers are telling the truth or not over certain things. Like whenever you hear "reports say" or "unnamed sources tell us," there really is no reason on earth why you should give any credence whatsoever to it. Anyone sitting in a news office can make up whatever they like and attribute it to unnamed sources. And then exploit the whole concept of "journalistic integrity" in refusing to say who those sources are. There was once a time when they could rely on the public's trust - people in general believed in unnamed sources and mysterious "reports." That trust is vanishing quickly, as is the mainstream media's monopoly on the flow of information. Lying (and getting away with it) is becoming harder and harder. 

Beepster
Ya, the NYP are pretty gross with that kind of crap. Reminds me of the Toronto Sun. Used to read it back in the day (there was always a copy of the TO Sun around in restaurants/bars and shiz) and it was at least somewhat informative about local events/issues even if you had to kind of read through some of the bombastic slant they crammed in there. Eventually though it became unreadable. Just constant nonsense designed to enrage and manipulate.
 
For big stories and generally get an idea of what's up in the world and in Canada I mostly read the CBC site but they of course have their own brand of slantiness (just not quite as bad as other outfits) and I find their coverage of events isn't as thorough as I'd like (as in they simply don't cover certain stories but I guess they can cover EVERYTHING). From there I'll research things more on my own to cobble together a reasonable image of the truth. Usually a lot of hunting around for raw video/audio feeds without a pile of talking heads and editing trying to tell THEIR version of the truth.
 
It can be very difficult to get to the meat of a matter/topic/event these days without getting sucked into talking points/agendas but with some effort and a concerted effort to not succumb to "confirmation bias" (which admittedly I did suffer from quite a bit when I was younger) I think it is possible to remain informed from an objective perspective. It's a lot of work and requires a HUGE amount of general skepticism/knowing your news sources and how they tend to slant things.
 
Related to this topic though this was on the CBC this morning...
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/london-fire-grenfell-tarling-expert-1.4163560
 
It's an interview with a building surveyor/official discussing the cladding issue and how this type of event was foreseeable (and he made it known well before the event). It jibes with (and explains) some of the posts we had here and I've seen elsewhere about the "cladding" and why it's so dangerous (and the crappy UK building codes that allow it).
 
When I kept seeing "cladding" I didn't really know wth people were referring to (and I used to do building contractor stuff) but I guess it's like aluminum siding and (in this case) filled with chemical insulation. The insulation being the flammable material. Worth a read... and for those in the UK a call to your members of parliament to improve the building codes.
 
Completely preventable this was.

They go nuts with that cladding in the UK. Even when I last lived there over 15 years ago, I was aware of older buildings being retrofitted with that cladding stuff. Local councils have gotten obsessed with two things: firstly, the environmental bandwagon in which anything which increases "energy efficiency" is seen as a good thing regardless of what other consequences it might have, and secondly the idea that they can transform these old eyesore council towers at relatively low cost. I saw a few towers in Newcastle done out with it. For example, there was a notorious tower in Newcastle city center called Bewick Court which was an eyesore and was associated with a lot of crime and people falling to their deaths out of windows etc. Here's what it looked like: 
 

 
And so the council had their customary "something must be done" meetings and decided upon a facelift of cheap looking cladding, which I'm sure is probably the flammable type too:
 

 
I remember when they did that, and we thought my God, it just looks like they've slipped a plastic sheath over it. It looked flammable, especially compared to the old 60's concrete. I have a soft spot for that concrete now - it has that sort of gritty urban chic, and the added bonus of not turning entire buildings into roman candles when you hold a flame to it. I bet everyone in Bewick Court is having sleepless nights since seeing the news the other night. 

Although this is of course a bit of a "meme" and subject to debate I've found, after many many moons of being a hyper curious (and I'd like to think relatively objective) news junkie, it's a reasonable decent representation of what to expect from the sites listed...
 
There are a LOT of sources missing but the first time I saw this it pretty much aligned with what I've noticed over the years.
 
Then again that is a subjective view of it all and seeing something you agree with, as I did with this, could be construed as confirmation bias.
 
Still interesting and perhaps helpful though (for those who give a crap about hunting down the closest semblance of truth possible).
 
That... may not be appropriate here (CoC) but this thread made me think of it.

The hilarious (well... in a "laugh or you'll cry" kind of way)... those old 60's/70's tower block building with concrete/cinder blocks between the units are/were the ultimate in fire containment. My last place was in one of those older buildings and they literally said to me the safest thing I could do in the event of a fire was stay inside my unit.
 
Those concrete firewalls are also great for soundproofing.
 
My current place, which is a newer building (and they lied to me when I asked them what was separating the units), has single frame aluminum stud walls, Roxall insulation and a single sheet of 3/4" drywall on either side. It may TECHNICALLY meet firecode (not even sure about that) but it doesn't meet sound code. At the very least it's supposed to be doubled up 3/4" on either side.
 
So we all have to be quiet as frack to respect each other and any new tenants generally have to be told to STFU after they inevitably think the place is "normal" as far as sound transmission.
 
Total rip... but we seem to have a good crew in here now.
 
 
 

Beepster
Although this is of course a bit of a "meme" and subject to debate I've found, after many many moons of being a hyper curious (and I'd like to think relatively objective) news junkie, it's a reasonable decent representation of what to expect from the sites listed...
 

 

 

There are a LOT of sources missing but the first time I saw this it pretty much aligned with what I've noticed over the years.
 
Then again that is a subjective view of it all and seeing something you agree with, as I did with this, could be construed as confirmation bias.
 
Still interesting and perhaps helpful though (for those who give a crap about hunting down the closest semblance of truth possible).
 
That... may not be appropriate here (CoC) but this thread made me think of it.

Where's Mad Magazine???