2006/01/11 07:41:47
Mully
Hey Daryl, here's some recent info I've pasted from a dealers email I received today as a reference... Prices are in Oz dollars.



BB535Q $349 DELIVERED FREE IN AUSTRALIA

The most powerful wah pedal ever, the 535 offers 4 different wah settings along with a 0-11db adjustable boost. Perfect for any guitarist, especially for on-stage and studio applications, because of the unique tonal versatility.

Features: 6 different wah settings (4 for guitar and 2 for bass) multi-range wah pedal (Crybaby, Mid/High, Jimi Hendrix, a Mid/Low tone, and 2 for Bass) with dual LED indicators and selectable 0-11db pre-amp boost.

GCB95Q $299 DELIVERED FREE IN AUSTRALIA

We've taken the original Crybaby and added the two most popular and requested upgrades - the famous Q control, which varies the intensity of the wah effect by adjusting the effect's bandpass shape, and the volume Boost, for up to 15 dB added gain to your output signal. The 95Q is a flexible tone monster that retains the original Crybaby's fast-reacting characteristics.

JHI HENDRIX $269 DELIVERED FREE IN AUSTRALIA

The Hendrix Series Wah is an original 60's design with modified circuitry to provide a fatter sound by lowering the frequencies of the operating range.
Features: 100k ohm Hot Potz Potentiometer, heavy die cast housing.

CB95.THE.ORIGINAL.$229.DELIVERED-FREE-IN AUSTRALIA

This is the original wah-wah pedal used to create the vintage sounds of rock and roll. Used by such greats as Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and numerous others.
GCB-95 CRYBABY® WAH WAH
When people talk about wah pedals, they’re talking about the Crybaby. This is the original—the one that created some of the most timeless sounds in rock. Relied on by Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, David Gilmour, and many other greats.

V847 VOX $269 DELIVERED FREE IN AUSTRALIA

Introduced in 1967, the VOX Wah-Wah quickly made a name for itself in the rock and roll history books. The design was an attempt to recreate the muted sound that a trumpet makes and was specifically fashioned after Clyde McCoy's muted trumpet stylings. Many variations of the VOX wha were produced over the years including a signature "Clyde McCoy" model that can now fetch upwards of $400.00.US Jimi Hendrix was among the many famous musicians associated with the VOX Wha.


Cheers!

2006/01/13 08:34:05
oddboy
Hi guys,
I'm sorry for taking us away from the list of classic wah pedals and those stunning boutique pedals to the land of mass produced giggery and pokery, but the BOSS V-Wah for me is the best all rounder.
You also can have a little / lot of drive on there too. (Although I don't use this as it's a boss drive which sucks) The modelling of the Wah's is pretty authentic to my ears and it includes crybaby, vox, morley (Boring, IMHO), has a rotovibe setting and some kind of wacky ring mod model and three memory settings. You can also adjust the range of the wah in all the models.
I've tried many Wah's and have only found the DOD FX17 to be unreplecable, so I have one of those on my pedal board, too.
This si one of the few times that BOSS have hit the nail on the head.
Nice one,
Oddboy
PS: the sonitus suite wah is nice too. I slapped it on a slide guitar solo and the sound makes me smile.
2006/01/15 13:45:32
Joe Bravo
There's really only two: Vox and Dunlap. Everything else is just a variation of sorts. I will say though that the original Morley Wah was a little different. Its hard to describe the sound. Pick up one of Al Dimeola's older records and you can hear it. I thought is was very different at the time. It appears that this new Bad Horsie unit is still along those lines. Personally, I still use an old original Cry Baby. I guess Clapton is the person who's most associated with that sound. To be honest, I can get the auto-wah in my V-Amp2 to sound exactly like my Cry Baby, albeit in an automatic kind of funky amateurish way.
2006/01/15 21:32:18
Guitslinger
FWIW, Hendrix used a Vox.

If you want a new pedal that's under $100 and want the option of modifying it, the Vox 847 is a good choice. The issue with the 847 is it lacks true bypass switching, so it's a tone sucker when turned off. Another limitation of the 847 is it's powered by battery only.

Right out of the box the Dunlop Crybaby Classic with the Fasel inductor sounds fantastic, has true bypass switching, and can be powered by battery or an adapter. The build quality is spotty, and its unmoddable, but the sound is great. I've been using one the last couple of months and have become hooked. The first one I bought started acting up, but I was able to exchange it for another. The classic has a moderately short pedal stroke, which makes it possible to get the Hendrix/Santana/Led Zepplin sounds, and those great R&B/Soul sounds when played clean. It does the vomity Cream sounds too.

If money is no object check out the Fulltone Clyde, or the Teese picture wah.
2006/01/16 08:34:31
Mully
Ahhhh... Hendrix and his Vox. Mmmm.... nice.

Oooooohhh, Clapton as Derek and his wah....sweeet....EC Live @ Budokan...yeah baby.

Stevie doin' the Soul to Soul thang...darn perty....mmmm...

Oops! Back to reality!

Cheers!
2006/01/16 11:57:36
j boy
Bear in mind that the Vox pedals that Jimi Hendrix used were not the same Vox pedals you will find today at your local Guitar Mart. Same for the Cry Baby pedals, etc. Radically different...

Vox in particular used different suppliers in the 60's such that some were even made in Italy (these are much sought after), while others were British made I think. The inductor is the critical component.

As far as wall warts... there are folks who swear that guitar effects pedals give best performance with battery power. In fact some hard-core afficianados even go so far as to seek out bargain bin non-alkaline batteries for that extra *something*. Check out the "Tone Quest" on-line magazine for more info if you're interested. Myself, I wouldn't go that far, but batteries are cheap and I wouldn't pass up a great deal on a vintage pedal just because it lacked a wall wart.

Many of the greates vintage pedals were battery-only, including the venerable Dallas-Arbiter Fuzz Face and the Vox Tone Bender.

The hard-wired bypass is one modern innovation that is worthwhile. My compromise solution is the Buddah Bud-Wah, that's what I personally use. It delivers the vintage sound but has true bypass. The new Vox pedals are really shrill IMO, whereas the Buddah is *chewy* and round.

Cheers!
2006/01/16 16:51:48
j boy
BTW, if anybody's interested in a definitive look at the wah-wah, this is it:

http://www.analogman.com/kraft.htm

I highly recommend AnalogMan's web site, for anything related to effects pedals. He is the KING without doubt.
2006/01/16 17:56:45
Joe Bravo
Well I disagree (in the most respectful, friendly way I can) about the Cry Baby being very different. The Cry Baby Classic still sounds exactly like the one I used back in the 70's. It even looks the same. Now maybe they changed between the 60's and 70's, I dunno. But I buy a new one about every 8 to 10 years and have noticed no difference in sound or construction since the late 70's. Those pedals are really tough and last a long time. They did change the sound for a brief time but people complained so they brought back the "classic" unit and it sounds exactly the same to me.

Out of curiosity, why is the inductor so important? I've never had to do any electrical repairs on a wah unit before. When they break down its generally the mechanical components that wear out and not the electronics so I've never had any reason to poke around inside one, but I always assumed that it was just basically a tank circuit with an adjustable capacitor via the pedal. You know, like a tone control with a narrow Q being rolled back and forth. I'm not sure why an inductor would help with that or make anything sound different. An inductor usually just steps up voltage. I guess induction could be used in a tank circuit somehow, I really don't know that much about it. I just like to play em.
2006/01/16 18:45:36
j boy
Joe Bravo, check out the link to Analog.Man's wah-wah article; it'll explain a lot about the inductors (and other critical parts like caps, too). There were many variations of wah that were called "Cry Baby" so the name can apply to many different pedals. If you had a good one back in the 70's you should have kept it... it'd probably be worth a lot now! I'm guessing it was a Thomas Organ Cry Baby. Basically, Jim Dunlop bought out the rights from Thomas Organ in 1983, and so this is sort of a defining point of departure. Not that Dunlop is crap or anything... just more hit-or-miss. I think you would need to directly compare one of the new ones with one of the old ones (properly maintained) to really say they were equal.

It's interesting to note the 180 degree difference between computer technology-related tools (like SONAR, control surfaces, plug-ins), the discussions of which is dominant on this forum, versus the analog-based tools that musicians apply in other respects (guitars, effects pedals, etc.). Everything relating to DAWs of course complies with the principle of "newer-is-better", where technology makes a steady evolutionary ascent. With analog gear it's different, and vintage hounds scour garage sales and soon-to-be-out-of-business music stores to find that '42 Martin or '67 Vox wah or whatever.
2006/01/17 00:19:58
Joe Bravo
Well, I read the article but I'm still a little puzzled. Please don't take this as anything personal against you John. But I think the guy with this web page is trying to hoodwink us. Or maybe he actually believes what he's saying. You never know with people. He seems to be trying to make it seem as though electricity has a "sound" and like the type of material used for a cap or inductor "housing" would somehow effect the "sound" of the electricity going through it. I'd like to ask him, "Exactly what does electricity sound like?"

I really think this guy is just attempting to pull the wool over people's eyes while trying to sell his reproduction pedals. I don't care if electricity passes through ceramic, glass, or an oxide compound, it should have no effect on tone. Either you've got the voltage you want or you don't. That's the only deciding factor of electricity on tone. Electricity doesn't care what its housed in or passed through. You can slow it down, speed it up, multiply it or weaken it, but in the end you've either got the voltage you want or you don't. I'm kind of shocked that he admits this to some degree:

"When talking tone, it should be noted that component tolerances were all over the place. This equates to definite tonal variances, one pedal to another. While I've heard more than my share of "thin-cheesy sounding" Clyde McCoy wahs, I've also come across stock Clydes that have had a deep, warm, and powerful tone! Inductor variances and other component tolerances could indeed make all the difference in the world."

Of course they do. When electronic devices age the tolerances of the various components drop. An inductor would be one that changes a lot because its basically just wire wrapped around a magnet (or two). Have you played any old Les Pauls from the 50's lately? Boy, in the late 60's everybody thought the sound of those things was golden. Those strong PAF's were only about a decade old then however, and still had a lot of juice. They sure don't now. People are replacing those "vintage" pickups left and right. What was once a number 5 magnet now has the strength of a number 2. So while I wouldn't put any stock in the type of components used having any effect on the tone, I would say that some types hold up better over the long haul than others and so they'll keep the sound more within the range that it was designed to be. I think that when people say they think one OLD pedal sounds better with one kind of inductor than another that what they're really hearing is one inductor holding up in its tolerances better than the other and that the type of material its made of has nothing to do with the sound when its new. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how it logically could.

The article it quotes from Guitar Player says:

"Also at this time (1968), Vox and Thomas Organ introduced a new model designated V846 that used a Japanese inductor made by TDK instead of the Italian made inductor. Most purists agree that this change degraded the sound of these pedals, but in the informal tests we conducted, our favorite (because of its almost human vocal quality and vomiting sounds) was an excellent sounding V 846......"

I think that's interesting because this article was written in 1992... 24-years after the change was made. I would submit that after a quarter century, one of those inductors probably held up better than the other. I would venture to guess that if both those pedals had been manufactured on the same day with the two different brands of inductors that we would have heard no difference in sound. But after 24-years of aging... it's a different ballgame.

Geoffrey Teese says here:

"The VOX/USA V846 changed much more than just the inductor. Everything but the very basic resistors were changed, making the V846/KING-VOX WAH/CRYBABY virtually an entirely new pedal (lumped together because they all shared circuitry, layout, and componentry)."

He's admitting that the two old pedals he's talking about "all shared circuitry, layout, and componentry". So the only thing that changed was the "brand" of the components. Again, I don't see how the way a component is made could possibly effect the tone of a pedal unless its an OLD pedal and those components have had time to break down. Again I'd ask him, "What does electricity sound like?"

The web page finishes with:

"I've also reproduced my favorite brown Vox inductor, based on my microfilmed Thomas files and information gleaned from the old Thomas supplier. These inductors can also be found in my RMC3 wahs, as well as my 847 Rev.A RMC-MOD drop-in replacement circuit board for the "reissued" V847.

"My RMC3 wahs, and modified boards, are now being used by recording artist of all musical styles, all over the world."


It sure sounds to me like he's just trying to sell you his reproductions. Maybe he means well though. You never know. I've seen a hell of a lot of people convince themselves that they could hear things nobody else could....

Now, assuming my Dunlap Crybaby is made from the same "circuitry, layout, and componentry" as the one I used in the 70's, I see no reason why it should sound any different, providing they were both brand new. If I had my old one to test it against, they might sound a little different today because of the component aging factor in the one from the 70's. But hey, sometimes a component can fall low in tolerance and effect the tone for the better! I might actually like the older pedal better because of that. Again, you just never know about these things. I think the bottom line is that you either like the sound of something or you don't. I wouldn't worry too much about why. And we all have slightly different tastes sometimes in what constitutes a good sound anyway. Some people seem to love Hendrix's wah sound. I thought it was winy and brittle. Actually, the only recording of a wah pedal from the 60's I ever liked was on "White Room". And I can duplicate it perfectly with my 3-year old Dunlap. So I'm happy. That's all I really care about.

I did learn something from all this though. Inductors are used a lot in generators and transformers, but I just looked up something about them that I hadn't thought about: They can be used as caps too. I guess that makes sense if its self inducting. Also, according to what I just read, if you put a cap inline with an inductor (depending on how its made) you'll regulate a maximum voltage at a specific phase. I'm guessing this is what's going on in wah-wah pedals. Who knew?
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