Rikkie
Hi BB, nice and rocking tune, excellent sounds and playing as per usual ; )

Rik

hey rikkie, thanks for listening. really.

philz
Very cool stuff, although I agree with me mate Bapu that the vocals could come up a bit.

hi philz, i guess i have to re-think my vocal mix approach.
i just really don't like mixes that have the vox up above everything else,
but i do want to understand the lyric.
even tho some of my favorite tunes (gimme shelter comes to mind), you can't understand anything!
LOL
 
 

mgh
love the guitar esp on the breakdown from around 2'00 - great use of panning and the tone is to die for. i think vocals are a competing a bit with the guitars and also with the harmonies/verb is difficult to hear lyrics clearly. i don't think it's necessarily a question of level but more eqing and getting the centre up a bit

hey mgh,
you know, maybe you're right about the eq'ing.
ever since i got my new interface (RME Babyface Pro), i'm hearing things different than before, same monitors and setup, but the convertors are letting me hear high end clarity without adding high end.
i can hear the vox clear as a bell as it is, but i may be too close to it for objective reasoning.
 
 

Vilovilo
Hi Bats
" it'd BETTER be a proper song... it's on the album!!"
Sorry ,sorry I will never write stupid things anymore...

hahah, man, that ain't stupid!
it's probably right on!!
 
 

daryl1968
Very cool - great playing and production is A1 as per usual. Vocals sit nicely for me

thanks daryl, vocals are ok with you eh? seems it's kinda split down the middle,
maybe it's playback system-specific?
 

jamesyoyo
Tasty wah lead: check
Impeccable playing: check
Tightass groove:check

must be BatsBrew!

that made me laugh, james, thanks for that

Danny Danzi
Liked this one also, everything is in place. I thought it may be a tad bright with the cymbals and the snare crack at first...but I just got done mixing a "dull sounding" array of tunes where the client wanted them that way. So my ears adjusted about mid way through. Great guitar playing, vocals, drums. Bass sounds nice and clear...could probably get away with a little more low end...but that's subjective. You like your kick to have the boom and your bass to be a little more percussive. I do mine the other way around. LOL! Great job man!

hey danny..... thanks for checking this one out!
 
it's funny, how things sound different relative to current playback choices...
i go thru the same exercises pretty often.
 
but you may be right about it being brighter than it really needs to be,
i'm finding out with my new interface, that i i'm eq'ing much less now.
 
on this one, yes, the kick was deeper and the bass was meant to be more aggressive..
but if you listen to the entire album, you'll find each song is completely different from each other, and in running order,
they explore a LOT of different eq and mix approaches, 
but i tried to do it in a way where they still all work together.
 
 

batsbrew

Danny Danzi
Liked this one also, everything is in place. I thought it may be a tad bright with the cymbals and the snare crack at first...but I just got done mixing a "dull sounding" array of tunes where the client wanted them that way. So my ears adjusted about mid way through. Great guitar playing, vocals, drums. Bass sounds nice and clear...could probably get away with a little more low end...but that's subjective. You like your kick to have the boom and your bass to be a little more percussive. I do mine the other way around. LOL! Great job man!

hey danny..... thanks for checking this one out!
 
it's funny, how things sound different relative to current playback choices...
i go thru the same exercises pretty often.
 
but you may be right about it being brighter than it really needs to be,
i'm finding out with my new interface, that i i'm eq'ing much less now.
 
on this one, yes, the kick was deeper and the bass was meant to be more aggressive..
but if you listen to the entire album, you'll find each song is completely different from each other, and in running order,
they explore a LOT of different eq and mix approaches, 
but i tried to do it in a way where they still all work together.
 

 
No problem, always a pleasure. I just wish I had more time to check stuff out. When I DO have time, I'm usually on something that doesn't allow me to comment like most people would want me to.
 
Nah, it was a good bright though. Like, what you hear on commercial releases. I really think it just struck me as a bit too much due to working on duller mixes. I got this one client that is just heck bent on that warm, tape type sound and he likes when the good highs you and I may like, are taken out of the mix. When you mix that stuff all night long and then hear a mix with a poppy, crisp snare, it can definitely make you think you heard something a bit too snappy. But you did it in a good way, honest.
 
Yeah amazing how little you have to EQ when you have all the stuff right from the start, a good interface with a good front end to get you there, and then your monitors along with ARC helping along the way. It's a no lose situation really. ;)
 
Nothing wrong with the kick driving the bus and the bass with snap. I switch mine up from time to time too, depending on how busy the bass is. I find that the busier bass lines almost call for more of that high end, balanced sound like what you got. You know what your bass reminded me of in this tune? The one off Cult of Personality by Living Color....which is one of my all time favorite mixes. I love the bass on that because of the low end you DON'T hear...yet it remains audible and clean, just like yours. I always though his could use a little more low end too....then it would get in the way of the massive kick drum....which you have too. LOL! I enjoyed this though...again, great job! All this and more.....from Sonar 6!? That still baffles me.
 
Proof right there gentleman, the tools mean nothing...it's in the hands of the creator as you can see and hear here with this fine piece of work. :)

appreciate the kinds words, danny,
and the candor.
i dig reading your input.
 
mixing low end is definitely the hardest part of mixing, for me.
the longer i do it, the better i get.
i wished i could have MORE low LOWS, but the lowest common denominator dictates the requirement, i believe, if everybody listened on high def systems,
it'd be a no brainer to go as deep as possible...
 
and on your high end comments, i agree, i do not mind listening to what a modern mixer would call 'dull' mix....
it's easier to listen at longer lengths of time..
 
it is tricky to offer the illusion of clarity and ringing high end, without actually putting it there..

case in point:
the high end on "Dark Side of the Moon"
it's exquisite.
same for steely dan's 'Aja'
but neither one of those mixes would stand up to typical modern mix eq

I dig your input and talking shop with you. :)
 
Yeah, bass can sometimes drive us crazy. Remember Beau Hill, the producer? He worked with Ratt, Winger, Europe, Warrant etc. He and I became pretty good friends and I actually asked him if I could interview him. It was really cool to pick his brain. I'll have to share it on here for those that may be interested.
 
But one of the questions I asked him was about his approach to dealing with low end. His response was quite human coming from a dude with over 90 million in sales. He said it would be easier if we didn't have to deal with bass, so in a sense he was admitting to some of the same stuff we go through. And he worked for Atlantic using millions of dollars in gear.....and was still challenged.
 
You know what though? I think we over think low end a bit too much. At least I think I do. I've been taking more of an 80's approach to low end and that is, to simply try not to go crazy. Though I love the sound of.modern mixes better than anything from the 80's, one thing they didn't have was that low end rumble and distortion we can get today. I sometimes get tired of messing with that sub low end due to the fact of whatever I do, someone is going to RE-eq what I've done. If I give them a nice, neutral mix, it will be easier for them to tweak. :)
 

LOL,  i mostly high pass at 35 hz and fugetaboudit
 
 
i do find i am gravitating toward deep cuts at around 150hz, of varying tight Q, and THIS seems to get rid of most issues i have....
 
 
case in point: a modern mix, super loud and pushing the mastering envelope:
 
Queens of the Stone Age, "My God is the Sun"
(hear it here:)
 
 
 
 
this is a screen capture of the frequency analysis of this song.

 
 
 
 
 
here's a blow-up of just the low end:

 
 
there is not a lot of low end in this song,
yet it feels and sounds as if it does...
 
i don't particularly like the low end in this song, and i would have beefed it up...
but it has amazing impact loud out of a high def playback....
 
so, for me, it's just one of many lessons in low end management....
and it's a fairly simply 'pair' of bell roll-outs, one on top of the other....
 
 
 

batsbrew
LOL,  i mostly high pass at 35 hz and fugetaboudit
 
 
i do find i am gravitating toward deep cuts at around 150hz, of varying tight Q, and THIS seems to get rid of most issues i have....
 
 
case in point: a modern mix, super loud and pushing the mastering envelope:
 
Queens of the Stone Age, "My God is the Sun"
(hear it here:)
 
 
 
 
this is a screen capture of the frequency analysis of this song.

 
 
 
 
 
here's a blow-up of just the low end:

 
 
there is not a lot of low end in this song,
yet it feels and sounds as if it does...
 
i don't particularly like the low end in this song, and i would have beefed it up...
but it has amazing impact loud out of a high def playback....
 
so, for me, it's just one of many lessons in low end management....
and it's a fairly simply 'pair' of bell roll-outs, one on top of the other....
 
 
 

LOL at "high passing at 35Hz and fugetaboudit"
 
You are pulling that off because you have a great ear for choosing sounds that don't have nasty low end in them that would ruin your mix. That there is a gift all in its own. :) It's the truth though and something you and I have been preaching about on here for years. Choose the right sounds at the start and the mix will mix itself. ;)
 
Yeah that QOTSA track is a really good example on controlling low end. Notice it doesn't have any peaks of ugly sub crap in there, yet is nice and thick without being over dominated by lows. It has the bass featuring the low end, with a kick drum that has a little low end as well, but a nice beater attack that allows it to cut through. The guitars have a nice body to them where they can pick up some lows in the low mid area to make things thicker...and you have a winner. 
 
I think this is the way to go....choose a bass with more low end and kick with more beater, or choose a kick with more low end and a bass with a little more clack in it like you did in your song. It's really a no lose situation choosing one of those methods coming out of the gate. It eliminates any low end masking and always seems to set up a great mix.
 
Another thing I noticed about bass in my regard, when I can feel it the way I want, I'm using too much. I'd go bass crazy if I could. LOL! I don't know why I like it, yet it's what I remove the most of. Yeah as for high passing, I'm usually high passing kick from 50-90 on down depending on what the bass is doing. Bass anywhere from 50 to 90 depending where I'm pushing my kick.....guitars, I usually need to add meat because I'm so sub-low conscious. Most times I high pass from 80 or 130 on down for myself, but for clients...whew, I've gone as high as 160! In my own guitars, I may boost 160-180 lightly just for a little body.
 
But like I said, I'd rather be a little poppy sounding, audible and bass light over being bass heavy and borderline distorted from the lows all summing to crap. LOL!

Danny Danzi
You know what though? I think we over think low end a bit too much. At least I think I do. I've been taking more of an 80's approach to low end and that is, to simply try not to go crazy. Though I love the sound of.modern mixes better than anything from the 80's, one thing they didn't have was that low end rumble and distortion we can get today.

Looking back, one thing that struck me about seeing bands live in the late 70s and the 80s was that they had much more bass impact live than on record. Even through a decent hi-fi system or headphones.

So the heavy, rumbling low end could be done, even with a bass guitar amd acoustic drums, but in the pre-CD era studios would have to roll a lot of the sub-bass off and compress what was left to make the track workable for vinyl release. The tape and recorders imposed restrictions on the initial recordings as well of course, and then there's the effect of oddball consoles like EMI's on top of that.

I've some recent CDs from a band I've seen countless times which also have high-quality vinyl versions, and comparing the two is interesting, especially the level of overall limiting/compression/dynamics and the very noticable difference in the low frequencies.

I generally happen to prefer the CD's more "live like" reproduction, but that's a matter of taste really. And most consumer playback systems are as bass-limited now as they were back when vinyl ruled so maybe people without a system capable of handling low end never get to hear much of the CD version's extra bass anyway.

Which in turn is another reason for rolling off sub-bass and controlling the harmonics unless the mix is being done for a system capable of reproducing it. Most listeners simply won't hear it. Hence the popularity of bass processors which increase the harmonics and create a "false bass" higher than the actual one to give an impression of more bass, but can muddy the mix up if not used cautiously.

AN EXPERIMENT:
 
 TRYING TO EMBED A LINK TO THE DEMO FOR THIS SONG:
 

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<iframe src="https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=B46DE159DFFF5C17&resid=B46DE159DFFF5C17%21114&authkey=AJUQiFlDPXjV3xo" width="98" height="120" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
 
 

failed bat