2014/03/03 07:50:48
wst3
read the post above - best encapsulation of the topic yet!
 
of course it made me think of one more bit... take your monitoring environment, and your recording audio paths into account, probably in that order. The room plays a big role in both as well!
 
And Dave Bock's microphones are awesome!!
2014/03/03 14:20:03
AT
Yea, Bill, it is all part of a system.  If you can't hear a better mic (or preamp etc.), it is either your monitoring CHAIN or yourself.  A decent room and good monitors are a must if you are serious, otherwise you can't hear the real but subtle differences no matter how good your ears.  And speaking of ears, they have to be trained.  I know I can't hear as well as I could when I was younger (one pays for all those live shows - whether working or just soaking up the bass in front of the pant leg flapping woofers).  However, I can hear stuff better with/in the song now, simply because I know what to listen for/to. 
 
Better monitoring allows you to hear stuff, so you can get the best (or better) out of your mic placement/choice to drive a sweet spot on the preamp/comp chain which means that recording slides right in the mix which you can hear on your good monitors.  A lot of learning is going on and dog ears are the least important part.
 
If you are in recording for the long haul, it almost always makes sonic and fiscal sense to buy the best you can afford, even if you stretch, to get a solid piece of equipment.  Classic hardware is classic because it works, but that doesn't mean you have to sell the house, sell the kids.  But that $200 Chinese condenser may sound fine today, yet after a year no longer gives you a thrill.  But a $300-400 dynamic can preform other duties better if you replace it as a vocal mic.  Meanwhile, that cheap condenser lies in the back of the closet, or is sold for a pittance as you try again.  You don't need a tube Bock to make your dream song (tho that would be nice), but it really really helps to have a good solid performer like the Fet etc. as part of your recording/monitoring chain.  If you can't get your dream sound w/ that, dropping more money isn't going to help.
 
@
2014/03/03 14:44:22
rumleymusic

2014/03/03 18:27:31
The Maillard Reaction
I stumbled on this old thread today while looking for some other specific info about a particular mic capsule.
 
It caused me to think about how difficult it is to learn about and select something suitable from the selection of mics on the market.
 
It reminded me why I don't like to make specific recommendations about specific mics and most other gear.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 
2014/03/03 20:12:25
gswitz
Thanks for being so helpful everyone!!
 
This is my current list of microphones - Bold marks the ones I use the most...
 
AKG D880 - dented grill from a time the mic stand tipped over - used for vocals sometimes
 - Purchased in 1998
http://www.akg.com/D880+++D880+S-1290.html?pid=1574
 
Shure SM57
 - Purchased in 1998
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/sm/sm57-instrument-microphone
 
Shure SM86 - vocals
 - Gifted in 2005?
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/sm/sm86-vocal-microphone
 
Shure PG81 - Drum Overhead
 - Purchased in 2003?
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/pg/pg81-instrument-microphone
 
I have 3 of these  - Purchased in 2002? - Drum mics
Shure PG56
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/pg/pg56-snare-tom-microphone
 
Shure PG52  - Purchased in 2002? - Kick Drum Mic
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/pg/pg52-instrument-microphone
 
CAD TSM411 - Purchased in 2014 - Snare Mic
http://cadaudio.com/TSM411.php
 
Studio Projects SP B3  - Purchased in 2007? - Vocals or whatever
http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/b3.html
 
MXL Guitar Cube Pro - Purchased in 2014
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/condenser-microphones/mxl-guitar-cube-pro
 
MXL Mogami Edition V69 Tube   - Purchased in 2008 - Anything but usually Vocals
http://www.mxlmics.com/microphones/studio/V69/
 
Blue Bluebird  - Purchased in 2009? - Anything but usually Vocals
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Bluebird
 
MXL V63M  - Purchased in 2006 - Anything but usually Acoustic Guitars
http://www.mxlmics.com/microphones/900-series/63M/
2014/03/03 20:18:02
gswitz
As AT guessed, I record a lot of guitars and singers. I do record other strings too, banjo, mando, bass, violins, hammer dulcimers, etc.
 
I record drummers mostly in bars and that only a 2-3 times a year for the past 10 years (although I usually spend months mixing those gigs).
 
I record small string groups mostly, either in my home or in clubs.
 
I do a lot of my recording out. I pack up fast and keep my stuff packed so I can be ready for a gig tomorrow without pulling the place apart. The hardest thing to load is the mic stands, of which I have 9.
 
When I use spidf to sync my tascam 2488 to my RME, I can record up to 16 tracks at a time, which is, coincidentally, the most concurrent tracks I've recorded at a live gig. To do 16, I use 24 bit 44.1.
 
Usually when I record out, at least 1/2 the inputs do not require me to use my mics. So, maybe a direct off the bass amp. A Direct off the guitar amp. Directs from Vocal Mics on stage that are owned by the performers. My mics are for the stuff the wouldn't normally mic themselves.
 
Lastly, I'm a happy hobbyist. I am not trying to be professional.
2014/03/03 20:35:21
gswitz
Over time, I have pretty much purchased my gear with an educated best guess and learned to use it after the fact.
Akai DPS 12 -1999 - 16 Bit
Tascam 2488 - 2003? - SCSI hard drive on Akai failed
M-Audio Internal Card - 2004? - attempt at in the box recorded but I sold the card b/c the Tascam worked so much better.
Line6 Single Input Asio interface 2005 - great for portable mixing but didn't really do any recording with it. Sent it to a Cousin in 2012 or so.
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra - 2006? stuttered for a year before beginning to record in the box using the FTU. Couldn't get around all the drop outs on my laptop and the Tascam still worked great. I just exported to the computer.
RME UCX - 2012
 
The RME and DBX are great examples of tools I didn't know exactly how they would change my approach, but I've been very happy with both.
 
I have a little money to spend. I don't really have 3K to drop. That was more wishful thinking. I'd rather spend 2 or less.
 
The two things I've been most interested in are a pair of SDCs or a API A2D Pre (which would bring me up to 10 channels on the RME without having to add my Tascam. I do find that 8 is limiting periodically and that I'm sometimes asking a musician to use the same mic for instrument and vocals (which isn't terrible with a good bluegrass or old tyme band, but...).
2014/03/04 06:18:55
The Maillard Reaction
At first glance I'd recommend that you get a more convenient extra 8 channels to ADAT converter to send ADAT to the UCX.
 
How about a used MOTU 896HD (not the mkIII) from ebay for $400?
 
Then I'd read the thread I linked too. Pay special attention to the ideas discussed by the professional magazine review writers and the candid comments made by the mic manufacturers and designers. It will leave you confused and dismayed but it will also prepare you to defend your self against the tendency for buy and sell vendors to leverage your emotions and tweak you with good for the money rationality.
 
You deserve to get at least one really good mic to get used to. You can see that many of the mics you have owned have lasted a decade or more. What ever a good mic costs... imagine how the expense works out over a couple decades.
 
 
 
A couple of hints:
 
I bought a pair of Schoeps MK41s a long while ago. Every time I use them I am amazed and appreciate how natural they sound while they do their job. Every penny was worth it.
 
I bought a pair of TLM103s more recently. Every time I use them I understand why the people who criticize them say the things they say, yet they still are more useful, if only for their consistent character, than most of the cheaper stuff I have worked with.
 
I'd like to own my own KM84s and I have yet to succumb to the temptation to buy my own KM184s.
 
The next SDC I plan to try is the Josephson ES22S... and I'm not sure why. ;-) Just curious I guess... and I'm still looking for the perfect tom mic... which some would say is because I don't have a bunch of KM84s. :-)
 
Good luck shopping!
 
 
2014/03/05 16:39:13
gswitz
Soundpure. Com had am interesting blind sdc shoot out. It helped to listen and compare the mics blind.
2014/03/05 18:42:55
wst3
mike_mccueI bought a pair of Schoeps MK41s a long while ago. Every time I use them I am amazed and appreciate how natural they sound while they do their job. Every penny was worth it.

 
For most things it is hard to beat the CMC6/MK41... just amazing, repeatable, and did I mention amazing? Not a KM-84, one uses the KM-84 when one wants a different, but equally repeatable sound.
 
mike_mccueI bought a pair of TLM103s more recently. Every time I use them I understand why the people who criticize them say the things they say, yet they still are more useful, if only for their consistent character, than most of the cheaper stuff I have worked with.

 
I don't care for the TLM-103, but I have a friend who makes magic with them!
 
mike_mccueI'd like to own my own KM84s and I have yet to succumb to the temptation to buy my own KM184s.

 
Try them before you buy... they are NOT KM-8xs, nor are they CMC6/MK41s... they are ok, but if you already have the best I think you'll be disappointed.
 
mike_mccueThe next SDC I plan to try is the Josephson ES22S... and I'm not sure why. ;-) Just curious I guess... and I'm still looking for the perfect tom mic... which some would say is because I don't have a bunch of KM84s. :-)

Exactly what I was going to say!!!<G>!!!
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account