bitflipper

But if the problem isn't with the speaker, the room is the likely culprit. Some absorption should clear that up, especially absorbers to the left and right of the speakers, and a ceiling cloud above, midway between speakers and mix position.

 
Since we're talking cloud absorbers, just what is that?  Is it 2" 703 material, or 4" ... or is it 705?  How close to the ceiling does the cloud panel have to be?  Could there be an 8 inch gap?  In fact, could there be a 1 foot gap, say, between the top of the speaker and the panel and a hefty gap between the cloud and ceiling (as long as the lateral position was in the reflection path)?  In other words, how low can a cloud be placed?  Also, does it need to be rigidly attached to the ceiling or hanging from the corners by rope, for example?
 
Also, aren't reflections from the desktop potentially more insidious than reflections from the ceiling?

Thanks for explaining that Bit. I knew there was ryhme and reason to the 3 to 6 ft spacing. Of couse there are parameters, and you just don't say "6 feet for every setup". 

So... my comment was accurate and spot on.

Your events are not going to work well in a non treated environment. I once owned similar speakers and learnt the hard way. They are great speakers but not for the faint of heart. 

Also, re: the Tannoy article, isn't it ironic that 90% of all pro studios have the NS10's mounted horizontally and on the meter bridge! I think the article was a subtle dig by Tannoy (makers of some of the worlds best monitors since the 60's ) at Yamaha (makers of the worlds most popular but possibly worst monitors since the 70's) - most of which you see now are not even connected, they are just ornaments sitting on the desk to look cool.

When I said you don't need a treated room for 'small' near fields I wasn't suggesting that the room could be just any old crap (e.g a typical bedroom in a modern home). Most modern homes have awful stucco /wood frame/ drywalled squared off rooms that can make even conversation sound awful sometimes. You will need more than minimal correction for those Events that you own. Also, they like to be driven quite hard! They make good tracking monitors for high energy low frequency sources.

I think the store sold you something not really suitable for your needs.

 

I bought them a long while back and I've got a few good mixes from them off the bat, but I noticed in songs that had alot of bass drums or lots of bass lines, remixing was almost certain...A few times..lol

So what are the "best" near-fields for a untreated room? I'm looking back now and now I think I'm seeing that 8 inch near-fields might not have been a good idea. I think when I got the Events, they ran about $650, given that was a long time ago, but you need a couple thousand dollar room for $650 speakers ?

Some folks might point out that if you are working in a un treated room that you will have an easier time mixing if you learn to work at a lower SPL.

You still need to learn how to translate what you hear to a good all around mix... but it's easier to do it when you aren't pumping the room full of excess energy.

best,
mike

That's a good point mike and what I was trying to get at is, in my experience with the Event's, they need to be working at quite high SPL's to sound their best, and then , if the room is not good, it's your neighbors three doors down that is actually hearing your bass!

I was wondering why the OP can't at least do some basic treatment to his room and if anyone knows how he could do some treatments that could easily be removed if he is, for example, in a rented dwelling.

Since we're talking cloud absorbers, just what is that? Is it 2" 703 material, or 4" ... or is it 705? How close to the ceiling does the cloud panel have to be? Could there be an 8 inch gap? In fact, could there be a 1 foot gap, say, between the top of the speaker and the panel and a hefty gap between the cloud and ceiling (as long as the lateral position was in the reflection path)? In other words, how low can a cloud be placed? Also, does it need to be rigidly attached to the ceiling or hanging from the corners by rope, for example?

Also, aren't reflections from the desktop potentially more insidious than reflections from the ceiling?

Clouds should cover the point on the ceiling that is midway between your ears and the speakers. Since they're not bass traps, 2 inches is probably adequate, but 3 inches will extend their range to include more of the midrange. They can hang from the ceiling - mine are on chains - and will in fact be more efficient if the gap behind them is at least equal to the thickness of the absorber. I really don't know any reason why an 8" gap should be a problem, other than maybe hitting your head on it when you stand up.

It's true that reflections from the desktop are insidious (good choice of adjective), but they are a bit less of a problem than ceiling reflections simply because the reflection points are closer.

The difference in distance between the reflected and direct paths is what determines the amount of phase shift and how low a frequency they'll cause significant comb filtering at. The lower the frequency, the less likely a given phase shift will cause noticeable comb filtering. The shorter the distance difference, the higher the lowest frequency likely to be adversely affected. Consequently, reflections off the desk or console cause problems at the higher frequencies, while ceiling reflections affect a broad band of frequencies.

Apologies for that last paragraph, it's not the best explanation I've ever written.

Sorry to ressurect an old thread but bit's info is some of the most well explained I've found on this subject and I'm in the middle of treating my room. My question is on the distance between speakers vs their distance to the ear. Or, breaking the equallateral triangle.

Basically my desk is 4' wide, and my Yamaha HS80m's sit on stands, with the cones about 5' apart, and they can't really be moved closer together. The HS80m's also recommend a distance of 5' from the wall, which seems in all practical terms impossible.

My listening position is more like 3' from the monitors. Even if I were to sit 5' back, I'd be nowhere near my mixing desk.

Bitflipper you already dispelled a popular myth I was wondering about, regarding letting the bass develop. Thanks a ton. If you or anyone could comment on if sitting 3' from the monitors while the monitors are about 5' from each other, it'd be much appreciated. What issues could that be creating?

JS You have a trim control on those monitors , so  you have some control over the bass energy and you can compensate for some of those conditions. If it were me I might simply lower the bass range slightly.
 
There is a big advantage to buying monitors that are NOT rear ported,especially if you are recording in a smaller space. Both types have bass issues in smaller spaces, but the rear ports especially have problems with it because ....well....theres a big hole in the back of your monitor firing bass into the wall behind. Some monitors  throw the bass out of a port on the front and some self contain it inside the cabinet.
 
While I have a sub woofer, I seldom use it and choose to get the bass close on my cans. I take the mix into other systems and see how the bass came out. I admit that some of my earlier mixes suffered until I dialed it in closer. My monitors have 8" woofers but I mix at lower levels and I use a correction program to get the best results. I don't mix rap with those thumps that you can feel like mini earth quakes, so I am usually more concerned about mids, lower mids and top end. Yeah...It's a work around but not a painful one.
 
I agree with Mike- Keep the energy low when mixing. My volume is probably at -6 or -4 db. You can always check the mix for LOUD after you iron out the other stuff.

You can also pull the desk out from the wall about 1-2 feet and either move in the speakers closer or that should put you in the current sweet spot. Most acoustic books recommend your head be about 1/3rd back in the room. This from the wall you are facing.