Hello Group--
 
There's some good news and some bad news. The good news is I'm finally getting a new DAW after 5 1/2 years! The bad news is that my PCI sound card (Layla 3G) won't be coming over to the new DAW because it's PCI.
 
The PCIe cards are out of my price range, so I spoke to a retailer about USB2. He said MOTU has a software package called CueMix that allows for latency and you don't hear it when overdubbing. I haven't used a USB sound card for music in my life and can really use some input from you to see what I have to expect as far as latency is concerned.
 
I really only need 2 I/O low Z and no pre-amps, but it seems like the fewer I/Os you get, the lower the quality of A/D converters.
 
The A/D and D/A converters are KING for me --  and of course little to no noticeable latency when overdubbing.
 
What's good?
 
Thanks!
 
(PS -- Happy New Year!)
 
 

Yo! Razor...
Please see adjacent thread I started... lots of good feedback already right up your alley...many people already provided feedback you're lookin' for...and links for latency, etc...
 
Just made a choice today, picking up a PreSonus 44VSL, which normally runs $360ish, for $240... (last entry copied from thread:)
 
"OK, I'm STOKED!!!!  Flawless set up, X3 loaded up a song I was muckin' with over the last couple days lickety split, unlike my NI Audio Kontrol 1, which was struggling and exuding long load times...
 
AND>>>> at 64 ASIO buffer setting, I'm getting..............................................................wait for it...........................wait...............................ok:

Vastman
Yo! Razor...
Please see adjacent thread I started... lots of good feedback already right up your alley...many people already provided feedback you're lookin' for...and links for latency, etc...
 
Just made a choice today, picking up a PreSonus 44VSL, which normally runs $360ish, for $240... (last entry copied from thread:)
 
"OK, I'm STOKED!!!!  Flawless set up, X3 loaded up a song I was muckin' with over the last couple days lickety split, unlike my NI Audio Kontrol 1, which was struggling and exuding long load times...
 
AND>>>> at 64 ASIO buffer setting, I'm getting..............................................................wait for it...........................wait...............................ok:

2.4 msec. in; 2.4 msec. out and...

Total Round Trip of   4.9 msec...!!!

I'm very happy at the moment....

$260 poorer, but the interface is pretty nice, well made real metal and no DAW choking, stuttering, pops, grizzely squiggles, or any of the things that would have me going.... AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!

Drivers appear to be rock solid, which is what I was hearing (they farmed it out on the original audiobox...and they apparently sucked)

 

So, am I settled???

 

Of course not! Still may try the Forte...for the pre's as neither can do real surround... My one disappointment with the 44VSL is that while it appears to have 6 output jacks, a pair of the four are set to duplicate the mains which eliminate surround playback, not that I'm gonna go there tomorrow but would like to quit havin' ta work so many gardens to buy all this stuff at some point...

 

Got a couple weeks to continue reflectin' and I'll keep reporting as I'm set for exchanging/upgrading at GC...

 

may have to change the title of this thread at some point as it has a lot of good feedback, reflections and considerations for others who follow in the ongoing and perpetual  "search for the right interface..."

 

gonna go give this a longer workout but Thanks, Everyone!!!"

 

Needless to say, Raze... lots of good feedback here and a couple other threads you should read...just search,,,they're only a couple days old....

Hey--

Very cool. I'll check out your thread. I actually started looking at Presonus. Back in the day when I worked at GC, the Presonus stuff wasn't all that.

I'll check more into their A/D/A converters and see what that's all about.

Thanks for the tips.

A few months ago I got the Focusrite PRO 24 DSP, which is what Vastman was replacing. I posted a thread before I bought it and it got rave reviews and mine has been nothing but stellar. Most says "owned for years and rock solid," so I hope I am one of them.
 
One feature this has that I stumbled upon by accident is "ASIO aggregation," which I didn't even know existed. Basically it will accept ASIO input from everything and anything at the same time, which is just wild to me. I specifically went looking for this feature after the fact and am shocked it is not more obvious. I often run things in stand-alone mode and have trained myself to believe ASIO conflicts will crash Win7 dead, but this thing is a trooper... and I am often opening things now just because I prefer that work mode (and CAN). After experiencing this I will never get an audio interface again that doesn't have that feature.

By the way, the Focusrite pro24 dsp is a stellar unit... and round trip latency is very good... just keep your kitty away from the firewire cable!
 
The main difference for me is the zero latency monitoring system on the AudioBox VSL series is way more intuitive to me and just makes sense...to this dumb old brain.  And it is a bit more powerful, allowing lots of different preset setups (they give you a zillion and you can save your own) using delay, compression, verb, gate, and other stuff... so I think it kicks A in that regard.... 
 
Both sound great, the VSL is usb vs. pro24 firewire.  I've always had firewire but usb is safer/portable so I've made the switch... oh, 2 headphone outs on pro24/ only one on VSL...
 
I really yearn for the Focusrite Forte, being a vocalist and everyone's raging about the rednet pres and uber quality dacs in the Forte... just can't get any solid real world latency data on it but for a couple user comments indicating about 10ms which is just too darn slow... but I'd like to find trusted analysis from someone like Jim Rosenberry...

Thanks all. I think Focusrite used to make the PT DIGI 001--I think.
 
I was surprised at the low cost of the Focusrite stuff. I'll have to see if there are any bake off videos on YouTube between Focusrite and PreSonus.

razor... while I'm having good luck with the PreSonus 44VSL and love their latency free monitoring system... I'll be returning it to try the more pricey Forte based on a lot of googling and pming between me and a couple other Sonar folk who say both DACS and the RedNet pre's are way superior to the range of interfaces we've been talking about...http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov12/articles/focusrite-forte.htm
 
As the interface is the first and i'd say most critical device in the chain which captures and translates our vocals and other creations, I'm beginning to think my Saffire pro24dsp died to ensure I got something better as it all flows from the beginning... after all, my powersuppley/motherboard died on my i7950 and while I was really bummed, I decided I needed to upgrade anyway... it caused me to dig deep... but I am totally glad now as the new 4930 handles 10 times the pounding some of my tools without choking and the 950 choked all the time...
 
As this is the year I'm really able/wanting to commit loads more time songwriting, maybe my saffire dying was also ment as a nudge to totally upgrade the signal chain at the beginning..rather than just replacing it with a somewhate better unit that will still not capture all the nuances of my voice. It was sooo weird.  Get my rebuilt rig back and before I can play a note, my cat has a fit in the cables, causing the firewire disconnect which kills the Pro24...
 
Spent a lot of time reviewing the googleplex on the Forte and it comes up as beyond amazing at the under $500 price and as you mentioned the DACs being important, I thought I'd mention it... lots of comparisons to it rivaling the quality of $1-2k units out there...
 
And now that my rig can handle 96/192 if I get all huffy about not liking whatever direct monitoring the Forte has, I can always go there...probably should be doing 96 anyway...
 
so, DACs/PREs...if they're really important, seems like you'd want to add this as a huge possibility... as cclary notes, the upgrade from his middle of the road unit left his jaw on the floor...
 
BTW, love your sig... lots going on in the arctic/antarctic which will totally change our world sooner than ya think!

Vastman
razor... while I'm having good luck with the PreSonus 44VSL and love their latency free monitoring system... I'll be returning it to try the more pricey Forte based on a lot of googling and pming between me and a couple other Sonar folk who say both DACS and the RedNet pre's are way superior to the range of interfaces we've been talking about...http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov12/articles/focusrite-forte.htm
 
As the interface is the first and i'd say most critical device in the chain which captures and translates our vocals and other creations, I'm beginning to think my Saffire pro24dsp died to ensure I got something better as it all flows from the beginning... after all, my powersuppley/motherboard died on my i7950 and while I was really bummed, I decided I needed to upgrade anyway... it caused me to dig deep... but I am totally glad now as the new 4930 handles 10 times the pounding some of my tools without choking and the 950 choked all the time...
 
As this is the year I'm really able/wanting to commit loads more time songwriting, maybe my saffire dying was also ment as a nudge to totally upgrade the signal chain at the beginning..rather than just replacing it with a somewhate better unit that will still not capture all the nuances of my voice. It was sooo weird.  Get my rebuilt rig back and before I can play a note, my cat has a fit in the cables, causing the firewire disconnect which kills the Pro24...
 
Spent a lot of time reviewing the googleplex on the Forte and it comes up as beyond amazing at the under $500 price and as you mentioned the DACs being important, I thought I'd mention it... lots of comparisons to it rivaling the quality of $1-2k units out there...
 
And now that my rig can handle 96/192 if I get all huffy about not liking whatever direct monitoring the Forte has, I can always go there...probably should be doing 96 anyway...
 
so, DACs/PREs...if they're really important, seems like you'd want to add this as a huge possibility... as cclary notes, the upgrade from his middle of the road unit left his jaw on the floor...
 
BTW, love your sig... lots going on in the arctic/antarctic which will totally change our world sooner than ya think!

Very good info, thanks. I've been reading up on the Focusrite stuff and it looks like they have a wide range of interfaces--from low to high-end. What I like is that there seems to be an interface for most applications. What I've never liked is paying for something I don't need. Whether it's built-in FX, mic pres, or ADAT I/O, if I won't use it, I don't want to pay for it. I would rather use that same money on higher quality features I do need--like converters.
 
The jury is still out on whether I'll even need a new interface. I'm supposed to ship my Layla 3G to the DAW builder and they will test it with the rig. I do hope it works because that's $X I don't have to spend. I can always get a new/better sound card later.
 
But, if I need a new card, I don't want to waste time doing the research then--as that will mean my projects are offline, and we can't afford too much of that, right? So, this info should help me make a swift decision if I get to that point.

You tend to get what you pay for - hardware wise.  The similiarly priced stuff is basically the same w/ drivers making the biggest difference.  The preamps in interfaces are also pretty much the same design, although some will have a bit more gain.  And it isn't that expensive to tack a preamp onto an input - think about a $100 stereo interface - 2 X 2 with 2 preamps and software.  Exactly how much are the preamps going to cost, component wise?
 
Most of us at home can get by with 2 inputs and 4 outputs - 2 for montitoring and 2 if we want to use external hardware.  The convertors are also about the same - using the same chip and same class of components and the same price point really doesn't give room for excellence.  The forte and BabyFace and the audient unit seem a step up - $500 + for a stereo unit and should give a bit better sound w/ better components throughout and less urgency to hit a price point.  How much it differs from, say, the Saffire class is hard to quantify.  I bet it isn't 3 or 4 times better compared to the saffire.  But that is how quality goes - you pay for the last 5-10% of the sound. 
 
@

Hey, AT! thanks for chimin' in...
I've been quite happy with the pre sounds of both the 44VSL and Pro24DSP but I am left wonderin' what I'm missing with the likes of the Forte/BabyFace realm? It's that "ya don't know till ya try it" syndrom...
 
cclary, who was using a quad capture before says it's quite a huge difference.  All the big boys out there say it's in another league and while I got a sweet deal on the 44 ($240)  I'm left figuring, hell...I've spent everything I had on the big rig, acquired the best mic I could ever dream of in the CAD E100S and maybe...just maybe... that last ****, which is actually the FIRST ****, as far as capturing it all... deserves better (not that I know what that is at this point!) And $200 more, at this point to have it all pristine and up to me...hmmmmm.... 
 
I may see if I can swing the Forte before taking the 44 back... so I can really a/b um... it is so hard to compare yesterday to today...
 
but stuff like this from cc...
 
Forte Review...for those interested...

It's like a whole new world.  What a stunning piece of equipment!!!
The headphone amp is incredible...clean, clear, and crisp...on USB Power
headphones will operate to a max -18 db output...Plugged in to 0 db..
It's like having brand new headphones.  I thought they were incredibly 
clear on the Quad...this is a whole new level.

The pre's are STUNNING.  75 db Gain....crystal clear...maybe a lil hyped on
the upper high side...but just a lil...

The touch controls are awesome.  The rotary knob is smooth as silk,
and also is "Push to select".

The DAW control....well, it went like this.  I turned the interface to DAW
Control, and a Sonar X3 Icon showed up on the Interface screen...and it was good to go...
THAT EASY.  WOW!!!  Not a lot of control...minimum really...but still super simple,
and enough to be useful anyways...

The Control Software is straightforward....nothing spectacular...and it came
with Focusrite Midnight Suite Plugins, which were modeled after the Compressor
and EQ on the Forte Consoles...
 
makes me think I should check it out... as it appears to be exactly what I need... top notch, not a lotta fluff or inputs I'll never use... which I will never want to upgrade down the line... for just a couple hundred more...
 
(oh, Iceni, you'll have to wait another month!!!)