So I'm looking to pickup a 'top' quality ribbon.
I've rummaged thru the last 365 days of posts, and watched the great video that McQ had linked to on the making of the AEA R44, but didn't find a lot of detail.
On a vid on the Sweetwater site the AEA Pres talks about the '36 "Bing Crosby" RCA, and while that surely makes we crave the 44, I'm wondering if the Royer 121 might be a "better" fit?
Also, the AEA R82 and R84 look inviting as well.
Having a Great River pre, my 6176 and LA-610, do I "need" the extra gain that the "powered" R122 or the R840 would provide.
Any thoughts, personal observations, etc will be greatly appreciated...
TIA,
Tom

I find the idea of having a "powered" ribbon mic repulsive.
 
I have never seen a need for one, and since I have never seen a need for having on board power on a ribbon mic I find the idea of having the first "active" gain stage in the signal chain provided by a marginally powered amplifier circuit to seem like an inherently bad idea that has resonated insidiously among people whom do not seem to own, or more specifically use well made ribbon mics. They seem to have theorized that they must have some sort of mediocre solution for problem that doesn't exist accept in cut rate budget microphones. The better manufacturers seem to be willing to make the designs available because people are asking for the option, but it seems obvious that the interest has come from the bottom up as the first "active" ribbon designs were introduced by manufacturers who have solid reputations for providing mics with bad sounding transformers and badly tensioned ribbons. 
 
The fact that you own several top grade preamps should leave you at liberty to select a traditional transformer coupled ribbon mic for it's inherent sonic qualities.
 
I own 2 AEA R-84s and 2 R-121s and two of the preamps you mentioned.
 
I still want a pair of Coles 4038s.
 
I'd hesitate to recommend one over the other for you. I sure like the R-84s and I use the 121s as often too. I think If I was starting over from scratch I might start with 1 R84 and 1 4038. The thinking being that the 121 is somewhere in between.
 
Good luck.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

Thanks a lot Mike, the GR pre a "good" fit with the ribbons?
The "610's" can be a little "touchy" sometimes in my experience.
I'll definitely take a look at the Coles.
 
T

I think they started making self-powered ribbons because of the gain necessary to drive ribbons.  If you have a home studio sans a good preamp, recording a vocal, etc might be problematic unless you want the singer swallowing your $1000+ ribbon (and I wouldn't).  That being said, I'd love to try Neve's take for SE on self-powered ribbons.  But I'd stick w/ the traditional ribbon in your case - the GR should work fine.  Here at home I love my cheap MXL mic on guitar cabinet, and drive it w/ a Neve or Warm preamp.
 
@

Hi Tom,
 The GR is a great match for the mics you have mentioned.
 
 The 610 should be ok too... but may get a little burly if you record something so quiet that you need to push the gain.
 
 When Wes Dooley at AEA introduced his very high gain preamp for his ribbons it was intended to support his interest in far micing acoustic ensembles in specific performance settings where the room sound was part of the final mix and the mics were placed far enough from the instruments to require lots of gain.
 
 If you use a ribbon mic in a small or project studio setting you will find that your regular stuff has plenty of gain for just about any situation.
 
 
 
Hi AT, the Neve SE powered ribbon mics can't make magic with a few milliamps of 48vDC. A guy like Mr. Neve knows that better than most people. I'm sure he does a very nice job with the constraints of designing for phantom power. One of the most compelling reasons to try using a dynamic ribbon is to avoid encountering the signature tone of an under-powered on board preamp so it's difficult for me to think of the option as something that really offers any benefit compared to just choosing a mic with a good transformer and a good ribbon motor assembly.
 
 
As an aside; a lot of people speak about how some of the old Neve consoles had a switch for low impedance "ribbon" mic inputs and conclude that there was something magical about the low impedance spec. Those inputs also had an extra 6dB of gain on them. That was the magic part. One may conclude that this is proof that ribbon mics need lots of gain, but this circumstance is qualified by an explanation, by Mr. Neve, that he had been lowering the gain in his consoles to accommodate the very high hot outputs of condenser mics like the U47, U67 etc. So the switch for ribbons, or dynamic mics, was just a way to open up a circuit that had purposely lowered gain. If you have enough headroom you can have your gain and/or accommodate hot output mics and that's what new improved Neve inspired preamps like the Great River do.
 
all the best,
mike

I almost always agree with Mike, but I'm going to disagree ever so slightly this time<G>...
 
placing the preamplifier stage close to the ribbon has advantages, I wouldn't rule them out. There are subtle differences between passive and active versions of the same microphone, but I THINK they are due entirely to the difference between preamplifiers... after all they didn't stick a Great River or UA in that microphone case!
 
However, if you already have preamplifiers that are up to the task then I don't think I'd spend the extra $ for a built in preamplifier.
 
Now returning to the original question...
 
I like AEA, Royer, Coles, Shure, and Cloud ribbon microphones. I wish I could afford a couple of each!!!
 
Of the bunch the AEA and Cloud probably sound closest to each other. The Shure (formerly Crowely and Tripp), Coles and Royer microphones definitely have their own unique sounds. If I was just getting started with ribbon microphones I'd probably start with the Royer 121... they won't sound like an RCA, but they do sound great, and with the asymmetrical placement of the ribbon they are very flexible. One of the Shure models shares this feature.
 
The Royer SF-12 is another candidate as a good starter - it sounds a lot more like an RCA than it does a Royer, and having the ribbons precisely placed makes stereo recording a breeze.
 
The AEA ribbons will take you back to the days of RCA, and sometimes that is exactly what you want. The Cloud microphones can do the same trick. I'd love to spend a little quality time with both brands, at the moment it may well come down to price because my limited exposure to them suggests that the differences are subtle.
 
And in the oddball category - I have a printed ribbon microphone from Fostex that sounds nothing like any of them, but still somehow sounds like a ribbon. It is fantastic for brass, and I've recorded some great vocals with it too. I do not like it on acoustic guitar, sadly. And I much prefer the R-121 on a guitar cabinet, but I could press the Fostex into service there.
 
So many cool microphones... so little money!!

Thanks to all!
Off to do a little "shopping".
I figure there will be some "Black Friday" discounting going on this week...
 
T
"Those inputs also had an extra 6dB of gain on them. That was the magic part. One may conclude that this is proof that ribbon mics need lots of gain, but this circumstance is qualified by an explanation, by Mr. Neve, that he had been lowering the gain in his consoles"
Sounds like the "FAT" switch on "modern" amps. Put the traditional 25uf on the cathode of the first stage on a switch. Or the "BRIGHT" switch on a Blackface Fender...

I was once on a ribbon kick, and even though I didn't get one I had made a point of trying a whole bunch of them out. The main reason I didn't buy is that the one I really, really, really wanted was way beyond my means. It was the AEA RCA-44 clone (with the AEA preamp). Wow. You croak into it and out comes Frank frickin' Sinatra. About 5 grand for the passive + preamp, or 5 grand for the active version. But what a mic!

Well if out came Deano I'd be "all in"! (or is it Dino)
Sinatra I can kinda do without...
But, PLEASE STOP, or I'll have one!
Especially if I find out BAPU all ready does!
 
T

bitflipper
You croak into it and out comes Frank frickin' Sinatra. About 5 grand for the passive + preamp, or 5 grand for the active version. But what a mic!

That may be the funniest - and most accurate description of the 44 I've ever read. Well done!!