• Hardware
  • Realtek AC'97 VS. Realtek High Definition Audio (p.2)
2013/08/15 11:46:54
Goddard
So much cluelessness and  misinformation in this thread.
 
The "High Definition Audio" (HDA) designation is not just some meaningless marketing ploy. It's actually a logo certification program by MS under which PC audio systems must meet rather rigorous technical requirements subject to testing per relevant AES specs using Audio Precision hardware and software (just like most high-end audio equipment manufacturers use).
 
For example, see:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff563343%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
 
One component of the onboard HDA solution is implemented in the chipset (i.e., "Intel HD Audio") which receives and transmits serial digital audio data streams to/from a codec chip (typically a Realtek or VIA audio codec chip) which among other things handles necessary ADC and DAC duties as well as analog and digital processing. The typical HDA codec chips are capable of handling multi-channel 192kHz/24-bit streaming I/O, so actually quite technically advanced little chips with quite decent audio performance. Also, as part of HDA certification requirements, MS has required that HDA codecs be supported with low-latency/low cpu-load WaveRT drivers.
 
That said, motherboard and system manufacturers may not take necessary care to assure clean noise-free audio performance in their products, or even if they do, there can be other factors such as noisy power supplies and laptop power adapters as well as power regulation and cooling fan controls which impact negatively upon audio quality.
 
Now as for why the OP's older AC97 version onboard audio sounds better than the OP's newer HDA onboard audio, dunno. Maybe ithere is an HDA driver issue, which an updated driver will resolve. Or maybe it's due to some vendor-installed audio mixer/fx crap.  Or possibly it's just a crappy newer laptop. Or perhaps there is a gound loop problem occurring with the newer laptop's power adapter (in which case, it would likely also affect an external audio interface when connected to the laptop).
 
Point being, it may well have absolutely nothing to do with the differences between AC97 and HDA.
 
Lots of possible causes, and yet it seems the prevailing clueless advice has been to dismiss onboard audio as crap and insist the OP spend for an interface, along with spreading a bit more misinfo around.
 
Oh my, the mindset around here is truly an audio interface vendor's dream come true.
2013/08/15 13:00:32
SuperG
Speaking of cluelessness,
 
It's highly unlikely a driver will any effect on how something 'sounds', barring dropouts, and mixer effects. It's almost always the analog circuitry.
2013/08/15 13:40:48
bitflipper
It's entirely possible that the two cards sound different, but it would be because of the analog components, not whether it complies with the HD standard (which only means it supports higher sample rates for surround sound), nor the quality of the driver. Something as small as the line input impedance could make an audible difference when recording. Crosstalk and distortion could vary from one model to the next, affecting all playback. Pushing passive speakers means the final amplifiers have to be able to deliver power uniformly on peaks and sustained high volume, so the design of the output section has a big impact.
 
2013/08/15 15:52:15
Goddard
PheonixVaj, what is your Vista laptop model (the one with Realtek HDA codec)?
 
What recording equipment are you using? You mentioned using a microphone. What microphone, and how is it connected? Are you just using your laptop's built-in microphone?
 
If you can give more information about your Vista laptop and your recording setup, perhaps you can get more specific help (besides advice to get an audio interface).
 
2013/08/15 22:59:40
musicroom
Goddard
So much cluelessness and  misinformation in this thread.
 
 
That said, motherboard and system manufacturers may not take necessary care to assure clean noise-free audio performance in their products, or even if they do, there can be other factors such as noisy power supplies and laptop power adapters as well as power regulation and cooling fan controls which impact negatively upon audio quality.
 
 



 
So your wise suggestion would be for the struggling OP to stick with the realtek. ?? Interesting. I take it you use one and swear by it. Didn't think so. It appears us clueless ones with a touch of experience might just have a helpful suggestion.
 
Carry on. 
2013/08/16 01:24:45
Goddard
musicroom
So your wise suggestion would be for the struggling OP to stick with the realtek. ?? Interesting. I take it you use one and swear by it. Didn't think so. It appears us clueless ones with a touch of experience might just have a helpful suggestion.



Maybe the OP's Vista laptop's onboard Realtek HDA can be made to work satisfactorily, dunno. Might be more helpful to first investigate into what the cause of the OP's problem might be, before automatically telling the OP they should get an external interface.
 
And yes, as a matter of fact I have used various onboard Realtek HDA codecs on a number of different computers and found that they can perform quite satisfactorily, particularly for playback duty, and have found their S/PDIF capabilities especially useful.
 
I've also found that onboard audio can perform with very low latency and loading. Which I suppose is not really that surprising considering that an onboard HDA audio solution (chipset Intel HDA component + associated HDA codec chip) is essentially a PCI/PCIe audio interface.
 
Perhaps you failed to notice where the OP had stated:
 
PheonixVajAs for the Realtek AC'97 running on my Xp, its great. No problem here.

 
It's very easy to tell someone they need to get a new interface. Makes it appear like you are knowledgeable/experienced, and doubtless others will echo along (possibly for the very same reason).
 
Isn't it curious how, whenever someone asks about a problem they're having with their computer's onboard audio, nobody even bothers to ask them about their computer or audio setup?
2013/08/16 03:56:27
PheonixVaj
Goddard
PheonixVaj, what is your Vista laptop model (the one with Realtek HDA codec)?
 
What recording equipment are you using? You mentioned using a microphone. What microphone, and how is it connected? Are you just using your laptop's built-in microphone?
 
If you can give more information about your Vista laptop and your recording setup, perhaps you can get more specific help (besides advice to get an audio interface).
 




 
Goddard,
 
The Laptop I'm having problem with is:
Sony Vaio
Model: VGN- CR240E
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
-----------------------
My old laptop is: Sony Vaio 
Model: VGN-A270P
Soundcard: Realtek AC'97
 
-This laptop is slower, but audio recording is great or shall I say satisfactory :D
 Good enough for a laptop.
 
And YES, I just connect a microphone straight to the laptop's MIC Input.
and definitely not the MIC's problem coz im using the same mic on the older laptop and its fine.
No problem there. I like to travel light and simple :D
2013/08/16 04:11:49
PheonixVaj
As an update,
 
Today I found one of my old external soundcard; Turtle Beach AudioAdvantage SRM
I tried recording with it, audio is good (much better than the internal soundcard), but it only sends out MONO signal;
Exmaple: Sonar stereo track, but the Turtle Beach AudioAdvantage SRM only sends out mono signal so it only records on the left side, which is fine, i can always convert it to stereo, 
but then it has some low buzzing sound and all audio sits above the center line, so...... forget it, let me just give up. Hehehe :P
 
I guess I better just save up for a new laptop
 
-
 
Thanks to everyone
FOR YOUR HELP/ADVICE/SUGGESTION/support/ETC.
2013/08/16 08:49:28
musicroom
Goddard
musicroom
So your wise suggestion would be for the struggling OP to stick with the realtek. ?? Interesting. I take it you use one and swear by it. Didn't think so. It appears us clueless ones with a touch of experience might just have a helpful suggestion.



Maybe the OP's Vista laptop's onboard Realtek HDA can be made to work satisfactorily, dunno. Might be more helpful to first investigate into what the cause of the OP's problem might be, before automatically telling the OP they should get an external interface.
 
And yes, as a matter of fact I have used various onboard Realtek HDA codecs on a number of different computers and found that they can perform quite satisfactorily, particularly for playback duty, and have found their S/PDIF capabilities especially useful.
 
I've also found that onboard audio can perform with very low latency and loading. Which I suppose is not really that surprising considering that an onboard HDA audio solution (chipset Intel HDA component + associated HDA codec chip) is essentially a PCI/PCIe audio interface.
 
Perhaps you failed to notice where the OP had stated:
 
PheonixVajAs for the Realtek AC'97 running on my Xp, its great. No problem here.

 
It's very easy to tell someone they need to get a new interface. Makes it appear like you are knowledgeable/experienced, and doubtless others will echo along (possibly for the very same reason).
 
Isn't it curious how, whenever someone asks about a problem they're having with their computer's onboard audio, nobody even bothers to ask them about their computer or audio setup?




 
 
Why don't we do this, you make your suggestions and leave your negative opinions of other poster's suggestions out of your statements. Maybe then we can "all" help everyone the best we can with what we know without any other agenda.
 
Carry on
2013/08/16 12:32:04
Goddard
PheonixVaj
 
The Laptop I'm having problem with is:
Sony Vaio
Model: VGN- CR240E
Soundcard: Realtek HD Audio
-----------------------
My old laptop is: Sony Vaio 
Model: VGN-A270P
Soundcard: Realtek AC'97
 
-This laptop is slower, but audio recording is great or shall I say satisfactory :D
 Good enough for a laptop.
 
And YES, I just connect a microphone straight to the laptop's MIC Input.
and definitely not the MIC's problem coz im using the same mic on the older laptop and its fine.
No problem there. I like to travel light and simple :D




I meant to ask, whether you have any audio problems with your Vista laptop when  using other software (such as Windows media player), or is the audio bad only when using Sonar?
 
Meanwhile, first thing you might try is to download and install the latest HDA codec driver package from Realtek:
 
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsCheck.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false
 
I assume you have the latest Vista service pack already installed, but you might also check Windows Update for any relevant MS updates, especially any for your system chipset and any which specifically refer to "Intel HDA".
 
Also, if possible turn off or disable any Sony-provided audio enhancement (surround sound fx) software, which I suspect might be the cause of the reverb-like sound, especailly if you are listening through your laptop's speakers.
 
Another thing to check is the setting for your laptop's mic input (in Windows audio control panel and/or the Realtek sound utility), for whether any "boost" or fx is enabled (ys, I know you said you had enhancements turned off, but check the mic input setup anyway).
 
And also, check the audio quality when recording with the built-in Windows sound recorder applet or the free Audacity program, or when playing an audio CD.
 
I assume you have been using Sonar with the audio driver mode set to Windows mode, so you should try using the Realtek WaveRT driver. You can also download and install the free ASIO4ALL wrapper which will allow you to use the Realtek WaveRT driver (appearing as an ASIO driver) with Sonar in ASIO driver mode, to find whether one driver mode works better for you.
 
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