Karyn
What "professionals" want/need is reliability, not cute features.   If Sonar is to ever get close to replacing PT in pro studios then the bakers need to concentrate on fixing ALL of the historical bugs, work-arounds and quirkiness of some of the "features" in Sonar.
 
You shouldn't need to be a geek to work a DAW, it should be as simple as possible.

Totally. I've suggested in the past, Sonar X(n) Professional, or, even Enterprise, which would be a version that is modular in the installation, so that you could rip out major features you don't use, such as "touch", which consumes resources on the machine. Or a global Freeze, which would allow you to gain a low-latency armed track w/echo button enabled (minus actual echo).
 
Before X3, I complained that I couldn't trust X2 to be stable beyond a session. Much of this could have been all the bells and whistles (plug-ins) I was using, but it didn't diminish the unfortunate experience I was enduring, hoping CW would fix a lot of bugs or crashes. With X3, it seems some things have been fixed and made more reliable.
 
But I want more. I work mainly in the recording/mixing realm, where MIDI, samples, notation, looping etc. just don't ever enter my room. People have suggested, "Then PT is exactly what you need, my friend." Yeah, I tried it. To make an understatement, you really need training for PT or a lot of intimacy with the user guides, not that you don't have to sift through tons of information in the Sonar Reference Guides to hunt down even simple functions. btw, PT (at the time of this writing) can't use Windows 8. Perhaps they're still testing and fixing.
 
Sonar is obviously trying hard to edge out the competition, but I agree, a separate Pro-train of the product, which is priced around where PT resides, undergoes much more rigorous testing, and features that can be removed to clean it up (strip it down), would be handy. Perhaps its architecture was not built with that in mind.
 
Some expect Gibson will inject a great deal of money or resources into the CW division to move things faster, but I don't get the impression Gibson is able to do that or this venture is relatively new to them. Sorry, Gibson, but that's my impression.
 

brconflict 
Sonar is obviously trying hard to edge out the competition, but I agree, a separate Pro-train of the product, which is priced around where PT resides, undergoes much more rigorous testing...

 
Because all Sonar versions have the same core functionality (e.g., unlimited tracks, comping, etc.) I can guarantee that if Cakewalk found a bug, it would be fixed in all versions. The company would not fix a bug in one version but let it fester in other versions.
 

...and features that can be removed to clean it up (strip it down), would be handy. Perhaps its architecture was not built with that in mind.

 
I couldn't answer that, but given how much interrelation there is between all the elements, my blissfully ignorant assumption is that it would be difficult. For example maybe you don't want AudioSnap, but then how would you specify the stretch algorithm to use when transposing? Or you don't want Matrix view, but how would you handle the hooks it has into track view, Loop Construction, and other elements?
 
Again I don't know much about code, but I'd guess the QC would be a nightmare because you'd have to test all possible permutations and combinations of programs incorporating different elements. I'm just speculating, though. I use the stuff, I don't code it 
 

Some expect Gibson will inject a great deal of money or resources into the CW division to move things faster, but I don't get the impression Gibson is able to do that or this venture is relatively new to them. Sorry, Gibson, but that's my impression.

 
Actions speak louder than words, so consider what's happened with X3 compared to what happened with X2, and draw your own conclusions.
 
Also remember that the acquisition is less than a year old, so stay tuned. On the very first meeting with Cakewalk, Henry J authorized additional hires. Gibson is taking this very seriously; I have a lot of responsibilities with Gibson Brands, but the fact that Henry is willing to allocate much of my time to Cakewalk is another indication of his priorities.
 
Finally, there is a definite emphasis on doing everything possible to improve stability. No, there won't be a bug-free version and some ancient bugs are buried really deep in the code, but I can assure you the attitude within Cakewalk about stability is not laissez-faire.
 
 

I'm real happy with the pattern of activity that has surrounded X3. X4 will be even better. I don't know what there is to complain about at this point. Every other (3) DAW I've bought was just confusing and crash prone, just the opposite of what others were reporting. I'm delighted that Gibson got involved because they seem to be buying all the companies I like.
 
There's nothing that I need added to X4 because I'm still learning the X series. AD2 was a great improvement over session drummer and all the plugs are great. To me the real benefit comes from continuous improvement over time. What would make X4 better for me would be to eliminate anything that qualifies as orphan wear. No need to bundle stuff that's been abandoned for years, it just makes the downloads bigger. Freshen up what can be salvaged and cut the rest. If you have X3 and Komplete anything more is for style points and post count.

ampfixer
What would make X4 better for me would be to eliminate anything that qualifies as orphan wear. No need to bundle stuff that's been abandoned for years, it just makes the downloads bigger. Freshen up what can be salvaged and cut the rest. If you have X3 and Komplete anything more is for style points and post count.

Can I use "orphanware" royalty-free ?
 
Here's the thing. Some people need to open older projects that have "legacy" plug-ins, and they may not have their original install disks around. I have noticed that more and more, the orphanware(tm) is being left out of the standard install, and you have to do a custom install to put these elements on your system.
 
I believe this is one reason why X3 has been embraced as more stable - by limiting new installs to the non-legacy plug-ins, bridging isn't necessary so there's less that can go wrong.

Go for it, life is short.

My point still stands. If CW wants to edge out PT from being the mainstream, it will take a whole lot more resources money, and effort than I expect is available. I don't want to see CW become the company AVID has become, because I've heard many complaints from so many people not vested in PT for years complain about AVID's operation, and priorities. But that's a whole other story. 
 
My point with a PRO version or Sonar is a pricier version that will afford the extra resources to dedicate to it. However, it could also allow a whole new core to be developed which could not only change the world of DAW's, but could divorce some of the existing core code etc. that Sonar runs on today. I dunno.
 
Believe me, for anyone who might infer that I'm disappointed with X3, I'm not. Sure, I have a few old gripes, some of which may never really be resolved or heard, but at this point, I'm working without the DAW getting in the way. That's what I'm happy about.

I'm pretty sure Sonar is already the "pro" version and has been for a while, next to products such as "home studio" and "music creator touch". X3 has been great to me since X3c, X2 wasn't terrible. I have good hopes for X4. Looking forward to new features too, things like Cubase's "note expression" or viewing more sends in the console and so on and so forth.

Sorry, I think my point is still not clear. Sonar is not the industry standard but is competing furiously with Cubase, Studio One, DP, etc. I know Sonar is a "pro" product, because everyone says it is, and I agree it's every bit as good as the others, if not better in some ways. In my gamble here, I believe Sonar is still not as widely adapted as PT. What will change that? What does PT do that Sonar can't yet? Is it sheer perception? User-friendliness? Features? Industry relationships? It is the industry standard, but if that can change, eventually, it will. What would put Sonar on the top of the list, edging out PT? 
 
I think part of it is that PT HD can be used to mix hundreds of tracks with added hardware, and used in ways that only larger production studios need, but more importantly, if you're going to make $$ in the recording industry, you HAVE to know PT. Unfortunately. Many of us do take the hard road, and are left too invested, too weak to turn back or look elsewhere. 
 
Not only does such a threat to PT needs to be revolutionary by another DAW, it has to be absolutely mind-blowing! This game can change, and when native hardware becomes powerful enough, it's possible PT can end up on a lower shelf. Also, if you look at AVID's website, it's clear the site is geared toward the industry, not the artist. I would surmise that AVID meets with industry kingpins and studios regularly to keep such relationships solid.
 
Sanderxpander, I would love to see more Sends as well. Larger faders, X1's Light color scheme (which was gorgeous), etc. 

brconflict
What does PT do that Sonar can't yet?

Run on the Macintosh, which is the preferred computer for the film and media industries. Although IIRC the Mac has around 15% of the overall PC market, estimates are that it has at least 50% of the music and media market.
 
I don't have figures on this, but my sense is that Pro Tools' loss of market share has less to do with Cubase, Studio One, Ableton Live, or people migrating to Windows than Logic's price drop and continued evolution.
 
Personally, and again I don't speak for Cakewalk, I think the market Pro Tools serves is shrinking - so there's not a lot of incentive to expend great amounts of resources in pursuing it. Instead, Sonar is on a track of finding the sweet spot between music creation and music production. Perfecting that combination, and combining it with exceptional stability and new ideas, will allow Sonar to pick up new users and continue to increase its presence in the marketplace.

If I was at CHURCH :-) this is when everybody would say AMEN!!!!!!