Ibanezer
I guess what I meant was how could anybody tell if you were actually hearing the sim in it's intended state unless you had the same equipment as the programers. They all sound pretty darn good to me at times. I guess I really don't care if this one sounds exactly like a certain tweed with a certain mic and that one sounds exactly like one of the hundreds of Marshall systems. Maybe as a studio owner you would could get a request for a specific amp setup. It's all art to me!

+1

hockeyjx
You always have to tweak the stock presets to get the sound you are after.

Unless the person who created the preset plays the same guitar, with the same pickups, strings, picking style, picking force, and pick type you use...and likes the same kind of music 
 
I've mentioned this story before but it's worth repeating. I had done quite a bit of editing to my original POD and got many sounds I liked out of it, so I was really looking forward to POD II. But when I plugged in, the heavy distortion sounds were awful and I couldn't understand how Line 6 lost the recipe so badly in an "improved" model. Then when I turned down the drive control by about 25-30%, everything fell right into place. I play with a thumbpick and use 010s; I bet whoever did the presets used a thin flat pick and 009s. 

TheStringMaster

Ibanezer
I guess what I meant was how could anybody tell if you were actually hearing the sim in it's intended state unless you had the same equipment as the programers. They all sound pretty darn good to me at times. I guess I really don't care if this one sounds exactly like a certain tweed with a certain mic and that one sounds exactly like one of the hundreds of Marshall systems. Maybe as a studio owner you would could get a request for a specific amp setup. It's all art to me!

+1

Another +1. I don't want my amp sim to sound like a Marshall, I want to sound like the perfect, idealized Marshall sound I hear in my head...and it takes a lot of effort to get there.

While I plug a guitar into a pedal board (or not, depending) then reverb then amp and out comes the sound I want. Takes less time than it took me to type this.

OK, there is effort in selecting gear, getting the settings right etc., no setting is ever exactly duplicatable and it requires committing to a particular basic sound at the tracking stage which is the downside of doing things the old-fashioned way.

In the end we all use what we prefer, what we've got and what we can afford, though not necessarily in that order :-)

I think a lot of people have bought into the hype from manufacturers about emulation instead of simply evaluating products on their own merits, for what they do.
 
Nothing creates the sound of a tube amp better than a...tube amp. This shouldn't come as a surprise. However, no tube amp can create the sounds that are possible to obtain with amp sims. Nor is there any law against using amp sims with physical cabinets or tube pres with virtual cabinets.
 
I ditched guitar amps decades ago and went for FRFR keyboard amps and/or PA systems because I didn't like the sound of guitar amps, except for specific applications. Also I could have much more fun with feedback because I could almost "tune" it, which I couldn't do to the same degree with amps. The reason why I started designing my own effects like the Quadrafuzz was to create sounds that translated well over FRFR systems.
 
However, the fact remains that a guitar amp is a very complex and sophisticated signal processor; when you want that sound, an amp will do it best. So, for those applications I have a versatile Line 6 DT25, a Peavey Windsor (which is very tolerant of tube substitutions), and an Orange Tiny Terror that kicks butt. For the sounds I hear in my head, I have amp sims.
 
To me, there are only two elements to the debate. Does an amp sim playing back at moderate volumes through studio monitors give the same experience as standing in front of a stack of Marshalls? No. Can a stack of Marshalls make the sounds I really like that are based on amp sims? No.

BenMMusTech
[...] One thing though...I would get a tube pre amp to patch your guitar into.  The amount of extra wow and sizzle not to mention sustain that a tube pre amp gives will knock your socks off.  [...]
Ben

Ben makes a nice point... back when I was first learning guitar I chose specifically to blow off effects till I proved I had a passion to play, but still needed a good amp. After a lot of research I went with a Carvin tube amp (MOSFET technology was in its infancy then, so a "tube simulation" was a flaky proposition done "digitally").
 
Sadly, that amp had been sitting like a piece of furniture for over 10 years due to the "amp sims" (including pedal boxes) and the ease of using them. I just recently pulled that amp apart and cleaned the pots in it, and is like having a new toy all over again. I had forgotten how nice that amp sounds stand-alone, and I have no amp sim that sounds similar (I own GR5 and TH2). I have not researched this at all lately, but real tubes make the real sound of a tube amp. I had shifted to running "clean audio" into X3 (so I can modify it later "at will"), but am now rethinking this strategy...

I think playing through a real amp is still really nice, and I don't get to do it too often at home. That doesn't necessarily always translate to a good recording or mix though, for many reasons :)

Hey Mettelus is your Carvin the TS100? I really like mine. I have the guitar rig 5 with their pedal. It's cool to mic all that and then run another line straight into the daw. Gets both worlds and options for later

Out of curiosity, I wonder if a lot of people who use the traditional setup have their opinion altered from hearing the amp in all it's glory in a live room or JUST the mic'd signal.
 
Because a Marshall in a room of course has more power than a sim.

hockeyjx
Out of curiosity, I wonder if a lot of people who use the traditional setup have their opinion altered from hearing the amp in all it's glory in a live room or JUST the mic'd signal.
 
Because a Marshall in a room of course has more power than a sim.

That is an EXCELLENT point. One of the first things I do with any amp sim is to build an environment for it. Also note that when you play through an amp, you're moving around and because you're in a room, the frequency spectrum changes constantly and adds animation to the sound. 
 
If you put your ear three inches from a Marshal's speaker cone, it's not going to sound all that great.